306 DTurbo and 306 DTurbo HDi ?

InvaderGIR

InvaderGIR

InvaderGIR

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I'm looking to get a 306 DTurbo, as it'll cost a fair bit less to insure than my 205, and will be safer, roomier, and much more modern, so have things like AC and electrics that work. Plus I just prefer 306s over 205s having had a nonTurbo XLd before.

Now having looked around on AutoTrader, PH and eBay I'm probably going to have to spend in the region of £1000 - £1500, I really don't want to spend more than £1k, but can if it's worth it (and once I get my student loan in :p).

What I am wondering though, is what's the difference between the '97 onwards DTurbo and the '99 onwards DTurbo HDi?

From looking on Parker's about the only difference I can see is a) HDi is newer (duh) and b) HDi gets better mileage.


InvG
 
HDi is common rail engine ? the new type.


Older D Turbos arn't common rail..

EDIT - The HDi's are also like hens teeth.. I can't find any close to me, and the ones I do find are far away, Overpriced, Or already sold.
 
Yeah, I spotted the 'common rail' on the Parker's for the HDi.

What does that actually mean?

All my cars and car working on experience is on pre '94 cars. :D

Some more questions to keep people going...

I guess the handling and performance are relatively on par?
What's the reliability like for the HDi? - I know my nonturbo '94 XLd was on 186k when I got it, and I ran it to about 206k, hard, and it then blew the head, so I got a 117k engine and replaced it. :D
Anything to look out for on them as well?

I plan on getting one with AC, as the SR version is just crap, my last 306 leaked and rusted and killed the RCL due to the sunroof.

I happened across an HDi on the bay for not that much and not too far away (Cardiff, I'm in Bournemouth/Launceston), but it being sub £600 makes me wonder quite a bit...plus it's a 5 door DTurbo HDi, would rather the 3 door.

Oh, and I don't plan on running on veg, so either is good on that side of things. :)

InvG
 
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Joe T said:
Common rail in practice means a bit more torque and around 10 or so more mpg.
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They way I see it is like this..


Common Rail - ECU Controls the fuel to each Injector not wasting it.


Older Mechanical Injection - Wasteful but the power comes in big lumps.
 
Commonrail engines are a lot better to drive, but when something goes wrong also far more expensive to fix. The old D Turbo engine is a workhorse, which you can keep up with minimum effort/expense, wheras the HDi needs to be well looked after to avod huge bills down the line.
 
hiroofheroes said:
Commonrail engines are a lot better to drive, but when something goes wrong also far more expensive to fix. The old D Turbo engine is a workhorse, which you can keep up with minimum effort/expense, wheras the HDi needs to be well looked after to avod huge bills down the line.
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Exactly what he said.
 
hiroofheroes said:
Commonrail engines are a lot better to drive, but when something goes wrong also far more expensive to fix. The old D Turbo engine is a workhorse, which you can keep up with minimum effort/expense, wheras the HDi needs to be well looked after to avod huge bills down the line.
Click to expand...

Well I know a little about maintenance...I mean stripping down and removing and replacing one of the older engines helps a bit :p

I know Pug diesels are meant to keep going for miles, I know the older ones certainly do...brother had a 300k 205 until he got bored and got a new car.

So in general, seeing as they both come with the same kit in the car, the non HDi is probably a better bet, less to go wrong, and I know how to fix one. :)

I have about a month till I sort out getting a car, so can read up more, just thought I'd ask and get opinions whilst it's currently in my mind.

All comments, good and bad are welcome mind...apart from 'get xx car' as I have looked at others, and this seems the best idea really.

InvG
 
You can't go wrong with the 1.9TD to be honest. It's basic and raw but they go on forever if maintained properly and can be tuned to a reliable 110bhp with the turn of a few secrews and higher still if you wish to invest in a better intercooler.

Plus if you get one with a Bosch fuel pump it will run veggie oil all day like mine does.
My 306TD was the best £150 I ever spent.
 
Stonedofmoo said:
Plus if you get one with a Bosch fuel pump it will run veggie oil all day like mine does.
My 306TD was the best £150 I ever spent.
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I take it you have a Phase 1 TD?

Ideally I want a Phase 2 DTurbo, as it'll have a lot more safety features and things as standard. PAS would be nice, but not a big deal, I'm interested in airbags and ABS and would prefer AC over SR.
I'm not sure why I want a DTurbo really, as the Turbo Diesels seem to come with pretty much the same kit, just a different name.

I'll avoid HDi then as I'd like a car I can see, understand and work on, which by opinions so far, the HDi isn't. :)

I'd like to get the car asap, but to be honest I can't really get one till at least mid Dec. which is when I'm at home. But I am scouting around for them :).

InvG
 
Yes mine is an early Phase 1. They have some advantages over the later PH1 and PH2's. Specifically they have no CAT, no EGR valve both of which reduce performance. They often have the Bosch pump and don't come with the dodgy DHY engine revision that throws it's conrods. But on the negative it's the oldest of the lot and doesn't have the features you mentioned
 
I had a '94 (L) plate 306 non tubby which was fun. But it had no safety features bar the seatbelts and my right foot ;) (and the second was lacking rather in safety :p). I was told it had ABS when I bought it, I later found out it didn't, but only locked up once, when doing about 70mph down a 100yard slip road that had a corner and some signs.

As I'm not that clued up on them in terms of phases, other than <'97 Phase 1, >'97 Phase 2 I have no clue as to what mine was. All I know is it was really easy to work on. I think it was a BD1 engine or something, I forget.

For someone that's played with cars (under bonnet, under body etc.) for years I know relatively little :D...
CAT is in the exhaust isn't it, catalytic converter, yes?
EGR? What's that?

InvG
 
Yep the 'CAT' is actually a simple particle filter on the 306TDs. It can also be removed totally legally as it's not a requirement on the MOT. All they have to pass is a simple smoke test which they all will.

The EGR valve is explained very well here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation ...and on the 306DT is can easily be unplugged. It too reduces performance and adds other problems as it was a late revision to an engine never designed to have one.
 
To save making a new thread, may as well use this one.

If a water pump on a 306 is gone, would this suggest that there are other things wrong with an engine too? Also how hard is something like that to replace, is it an engine out and into pieces job?

InvG
 
fonzee said:
only the late 1.9DTs had an EGR iirc...
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My N/A 1.9 diesel has an EGR :) Although it's still plugged in as I thought it would help increase MPG, although have a negative effect on performance. The fact it doesn't have a great deal of power to begin with means it's hardly worth unplugging to gain performance :p

BeatMaster :D
 
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