House prices..

House prices where pushed up by the way banks gave out huge mortgages, people lived off the "my house is worth" £250k when they where only that price because of estate agents and banks pushing up prices.

A 3 bed bungalow was worth £89k in 2000 in my street and one across the road exact same is worth £165k now, how can the same house rise £76k in 7 years and people think that is normal, its outrages, its nearly £1k a month over 7 years.

Prices have to slow or fall, they have been pushed up far to much by wrong people.
 
A 3 bed bungalow was worth £89k in 2000 in my street and one across the road exact same is worth £165k now, how can the same house rise £76k in 7 years and people think that is normal, its outrages, its nearly £1k a month over 7 years.
I earn more than my neighbours and as a couple we bring in probably double what they do. With their low mortgages they can afford new cars and flatscreen tellies, jet around the world on holiday and go waste all their money in the pub every week. But I can't afford to buy the place, I have to rent it and I can't afford new cars or big flatscreen tellies or lavish holidays or meals out all the time. Is that right that I work harder and strive harder to earn that much more but yet live a lower quality of life?
 
you'd have to be a very brave ftb to enter the market now, it would be a very large commitment and have some risk.

Why? Buying a house is a large commitment is it not?

If you can afford to buy now, and can handle some rate increases in future, whats the problem?

The problem is that over the last few things everyone sees houses as an investment rather than a home.

Couldn't give a monkies if my house goes down in value, I'm not planning on selling, can afford the mortgage

comfortably, and if I'm happy to pay what I did for it now a decrease whilst mildly annoying isn't the end of the world.

I earn more than my neighbours and as a couple we bring in probably double what they do. With their low mortgages they can afford new cars and flatscreen tellies, jet around the world on holiday and go waste all their money in the pub every week. But I can't afford to buy the place, I have to rent it and I can't afford new cars or big flatscreen tellies or lavish holidays or meals out all the time. Is that right that I work harder and strive harder to earn that much more but yet live a lower quality of life?

How old are they? I could say that about my inlaws, they are older, retired, have no mortgage now, but when they did it was a lot less relatively speaking than what we have now. But 20 odd years ago when they bought the place they had a whacking great mortgage and spent most of their income on it. give it time and you'll be in the same position :p

Anyway these arguments come round every 6 months or so, you always get the home owners fighting one corner and the non home owners fighting the other, nothing changes.
 
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I live in Cambridge. A friend recently bought a 1 bedroom flat for 112k. Granted it isn't big but it is a lot cheaper than i have seen them go for recently.

jesus...., only 5 years ago you could have brought 2 small 3 bedroom houses for that price down here, I still can't get over how much the house prices have increased over the last 5 years, I think what makes it hard for me is that I still have it very fresh in my memory how cheap houses were only a few years ago.
 
How old are they? I could say that about my inlaws, they are older, retired, have no mortgage now, but when they did it was a lot less relatively speaking than what we have now. But 20 odd years ago when they bought the place they had a whacking great mortgage and spent most of their income on it. give it time and you'll be in the same position :p

That's the thing - we may not be.

Inflation is low (historically speaking at the moment)
This means that interest rates are low and hence credit is cheap - one thing that people are forgetting though is that inflation eats away at debts.

The graph below shows how the value erodes at 2% inflation (blue line) and 7% inflation (red line)
inflation.png


I've taken a house to cost 50% of income at year 0, as you can see you're poorer for longer with low inflation.
This will be the killer of current house prices IMO as people are spending stupid amounts of money for houses and they will be crippled for years to come.

At the peaks of the booms in the 70s and 80s mortgage costs were as high in terms of income in the first year, but wage inflation was higher so the debts became manageable a lot quicker.

If inflation stays low then this will be a problem for many families for years to come.
 
One of my potential regrets (I haven't decided yet!) is that we didn't push the boat out and spend excessively when buying our first house. We took a much smaller mortgage than was on offer and went for 20yrs rather than the standard 25.

This means that we have an average house in an average area. This weekend we stayed with friends, who have a nice new build house in a decent area. I'm actually quite jealous because they have the fancy kitchen, 4 bedrooms, ensuite master bedroom, multiple offroad parking etc. It cost about 50% more than our house, but then a healthy bank balance doesn't raise your standard of living unless you spend it.

When buying I didn't want to spend more than we needed to, and wanted something nice and affordable (if I lose my job, paying the bills on my partner's salary alone wouldn't be a problem). In my eyes spending £165k last summer on a 3bed terrace was a reasonable buy in this area. But now I'm thinking maybe dropping another £50k would have been worthwhile to get somewhere where you don't have so much shouting outside our house at night, a safe place for the motor (we didn't have one back then) and something a bit newer/posher indoors.
 
Well I have just managed to sell my house.

2 months ago it was valued at £125k. Just sold it today for £110k.

Its a first time buyer property but the market has changed. It is very much a buyers market at the moment.
 
Well I have just managed to sell my house.

2 months ago it was valued at £125k. Just sold it today for £110k.

Its a first time buyer property but the market has changed. It is very much a buyers market at the moment.

Lucky you managed to offload it quickly. Give it another month and I think you'd have been lucky to get £100,000 for it.
 
Well I have just managed to sell my house.

2 months ago it was valued at £125k. Just sold it today for £110k.

Its a first time buyer property but the market has changed. It is very much a buyers market at the moment.

Depends on how true your valuation was :) Another part of the problem is the 'housing boom' has made people greedy. I'm not in the business but my family are, and they are always telling me stories of how they go to value a house, say it's worth x pounds, then the owners say something like "ooh we thought it might have been worth x + 1 bazillion". They have no reason for this, maybe they painted a room, but it's fickle people like that who make things seem worse than they are.

So when their house is sat on the market for a while at an unrealistic price it gets reduced, sells, then that sparks off the "houses were selling for this in our area but now they are going for this much less".

Also bet we get another rate drop in the next few months (probably won't now I've said that :p).
 
Yup it's amazing what some people think their house is worth. The thing is, unless these people are downsizing or not buying another house, they will be WORSE off! People who want families or to move to a bigger house in future, having higher house prices doesn't make you richer it makes you poorer!
 
My girlfriends grandad is the worst for thinking his property is worth more thna it is, he is obsessed with how much it would sell for. Two bed bungalow which needs loads of work, literally every room redone, kitchen and bathroom gutted. I cant imagine why anyone would want to buy it unless they had the cash to do substantial cosmetic work to it. Similar in his street have went for around 140-160k and they have been nice but for some reason he is convinced his will sell for 190k!!! We darent question him about it he is totally convinced.
 
Something I posted on another forum, thought I may as well put it in here as well...

A more detailed explanation as to why banks won't be as willing to lend large amounts in future.

In the old days (well anything more than a decade ago really) banks loaned out money and took money in as savings.
These days it has become a lot more complicated than that.

Effectively a mortgage is a bond, it's a commitment to pay a fixed amount for a fixed time period.
As such it has a value and can be sold on, in much the same way that a standard bond can be.
A mortgage on the average family house generally wouldn't be of interest to a large bank or hedge fund so you end up with lots of mortgages being packaged together in something called a CDO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateralized_debt_obligation

These are split up into things called tranches and given ratings.
Like a normal bond the ratings depend on the risk of default.

Now there were some problems with the rating given as has been found out recently.
Things that were rated AAA were treated in the same respect as a normal AAA rated bond, something which would generally only be given to a government bond of a 1st world country.
So, CDOs were trading at values far higher than they should have been given the risk - this meant that banks could afford to liberally award mortgages to people because they could then sell the debt on for a good price.

You can see how the price of a AAA rated CDO changed here:
http://www.markit.com/information/products/abx.html

Take a look at any of the AAA tranches and see how they've fallen in price recently (in fact take a look at any of them to see the same!)

Obviously this then means that the banks can't make as much money by selling on their mortgages anymore.
Thus, they will either have to up the rates or be a lot more stringent with their lending and only lend to people with a) large deposits or b) excellent credit or possibly only c) people with both of these things.

It seems that the rating systems used only took into account rising house prices (after all, who cares if people default on their loans if you can reposess a house that's worth substantially more than the value of the loan)
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2007/07/fitch-discloses-its-fatally-flawed.html

Once prices stopped rising in the USA it was only a matter of time before it all fell apart.
British banks are affected by all of this as well, it's certainly not something that is limited to the USA.

At the moment the main consequence of all this is the fact that banks are unwilling to lend to each other.
The LIBOR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIBOR) is currently at 6.70% for a 1 month loan, even though the BoE base rate has been reduced to 5.5%
This means that banks are finding it expensive (and for some very difficult, hence Northern Rock) to source money and this is adding to the issues of being able to give out cheap mortgages.

Hopefully that explains things a bit better.

IMO the next couple of years will see house prices fall.
Market value is only what someone is willing and able to pay, if the ability to pay drops then so will the market value of houses.
 
Excellent post. I think this makes it quite clear why the fallout from the credit crunch is causing house prices to spiral downwards. It doesn't matter whether there are still some silly people prepared to stretch themselves to the absolute limit just to get a foot on the housing ladder, because if the banks aren't lending them the crazy multiples anymore then they simply can't afford it.

Interestly enough I heard on BBC news 24 just now that more than a MILLION people are coming off fixed rate deals next year. They said the average increase in monthly payments would be about £200. Even at the moment reposessions are soaring so when these fixed term deals end reposessions are going to go off the scale.

It's all very well saying the Bank of England will keep reducing rates to try and steady things despite it being clear that inflation is rampant (nowhere near official figures of 2.1%), but with the LIBOR rate actually rising (despite the recent 0.25% cut) it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to most people.
 
Interestly enough I heard on BBC news 24 just now that more than a MILLION people are coming off fixed rate deals next year. They said the average increase in monthly payments would be about £200. Even at the moment reposessions are soaring so when these fixed term deals end reposessions are going to go off the scale.

Our fixed term expires in February, won't really affect us greatly though. I'd imagine a maybe £500 to remortgage and then an extra ton every month due to the 1% rise. We're already overpaying by >100 month so it might even provide a good opportunity to chop our mortgage term down further.

Regarding the whole buy-to-let thing, I read an interesting article on the BBC that contrary to popular (well, on this forum at least) belief, statistically BTL borrowers are doing much better than people taking out mortgages to fund their own home. People who have a mortgage to finance their house are more than twice as likely to be behind in their mortgage payments as BTLers. Obviously one would imagine that those who can afford to BTL are likely to be 'loaded' anyway, helping the stats, but of course that just goes to disprove this concept that the people doing BTL are up the creek without a paddle in terms of the affordability of it.
 
I think this makes it quite clear why the fallout from the credit crunch is causing house prices to spiral downwards.
Dunno where you live but prices aren't "spiraling downwards" here. In fact, they've not spiraled at all. There has been a slow down in the rate of growth, that's all.
 
Our fixed term expires in February, won't really affect us greatly though. I'd imagine a maybe £500 to remortgage and then an extra ton every month due to the 1% rise. We're already overpaying by >100 month so it might even provide a good opportunity to chop our mortgage term down further.

Regarding the whole buy-to-let thing, I read an interesting article on the BBC that contrary to popular (well, on this forum at least) belief, statistically BTL borrowers are doing much better than people taking out mortgages to fund their own home. People who have a mortgage to finance their house are more than twice as likely to be behind in their mortgage payments as BTLers. Obviously one would imagine that those who can afford to BTL are likely to be 'loaded' anyway, helping the stats, but of course that just goes to disprove this concept that the people doing BTL are up the creek without a paddle in terms of the affordability of it.

As for your circumstances, you clearly took on a mortgage of a reasonable size relative to your income, and thus you can easily service this mortgage allowing for fluctuations in interest rates, which means another £100 a month doesn't matter too much. There are however people who haven't planned so well when taking out a mortgage and they have borrowed staggering amounts, presumably in the misbelief that it doesn't matter because house prices "only ever go up". These are the silly people who are going to get reposessed.

Can you provide a link for the BTL article on the BBC website?
 
Round this neck of the woods..... house prices have fallen an average £6000 over the last 3 months and virtually no houses are selling.... There are loads of properties on the market, and a local Estate agent has recently let go of 80 employees.

The wifes friend was also a part owner of a Remax franchise (which previously was making a mint) unfortunately she has recently had to sell her share of it as she was making nothing from it anymore.

Last year, we were looking at a nearby house on the market at £270,000 - we never went ahead with the purchase, and the house stayed on the market - the same house is now back on the market again at £257,000. Unfortunately, our own house has dropped by about £5000 also.
 
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In regards to the value of my property the valuation came in above my expectations.

I valued the property at £115k but two valuations came in at £125k.

The problem with house prices and buyers is facts and reality have very little to do with anything. Perception is the key.

Its a buyers market and by simply doing nothing they are saving themselves thousands. Once they all realise this house prices will continue to drop. Combine this with tighter lending criteria and things will not start to improve until about Q3 next year.
 
Round this neck of the woods..... house prices have fallen an average £6000 over the last 3 months and virtually no houses are selling.... There are loads of properties on the market, and a local Estate agent has recently let go of 80 employees.

The wifes friend was also a part owner of a Remax franchise (which previously was making a mint) unfortunately she has recently had to sell her share of it as she was making nothing from it anymore.

Last year, we were looking at a nearby house on the market at £270,000 - we never went ahead with the purchase, and the house stayed on the market - the same house is now back on the market again at £257,000. Unfortunately, our own house has dropped by about £5000 also.

There are a lot of things wrong with your post. House prices are NOT falling. People are simply putting more realistic valuations on houses. Your own house has NOT dropped value by £5000.

Say, for example, your house has been increasing in price by 1% every month. This then slows down to 0.5% per month. You may imagine that, given the first figure, your house would be worth £150k; but in fact, due to the increase in value slowing (not reducing) your house is in fact worth £145k. You haven't lost £5000 - the value simply hasn't increased by the same amount it was before. There is no house price crash, nor will there be.
 
Why? Buying a house is a large commitment is it not?

If you can afford to buy now, and can handle some rate increases in future, whats the problem?

The problem is that over the last few things everyone sees houses as an investment rather than a home.

Couldn't give a monkies if my house goes down in value, I'm not planning on selling, can afford the mortgage

comfortably, and if I'm happy to pay what I did for it now a decrease whilst mildly annoying isn't the end of the world.



How old are they? I could say that about my inlaws, they are older, retired, have no mortgage now, but when they did it was a lot less relatively speaking than what we have now. But 20 odd years ago when they bought the place they had a whacking great mortgage and spent most of their income on it. give it time and you'll be in the same position :p

Anyway these arguments come round every 6 months or so, you always get the home owners fighting one corner and the non home owners fighting the other, nothing changes.

I agree with everything you say there. If house prices as a whole fall my house that I paid £xxxk for may be worth say 20% less but nice detached house in the country that I'd like to buy in 7 to 10 years time all of a sudden is 20% more achievable.

As Evo says its very much age dependant. When I bought a year ago I played it safe and went for a 10 year fixed rate mortgage. One year on I'm already on £3k more than I was, even if I don't get any more pay rises I'm looking at a cost of living increase of a couple of percent a year for the next 9 years, so whilst things were a bit of a stretch they *touch wood* will only get easier.
 
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