Advice: Faulty phone, Manufacturer not repairing?

rG-tom · 12 Dec 2007 at 11:04

Hey guys,

I've had a Tmobile MDA Vario 2 since approximately February of this year, and in the last few months the usb connection on the bottom which also doubles as the charging port has deteriorated to the point where it no longer will charge or sync the phone, rendering it useless.

I had this sent away under the 18 month warranty by my local tmobile store, but I then 2 weeks later had an invoice sent to me to the tune of ~£55 for the repair of it! The phone has never been dropped or misused, and the usb circuitry is recessed and couldn't be damaged by accident really. Breaking after 7 months of normal usage does not imo constitute that the port was fit for purpose!

I have tried to speak to Tmobile about this but I have hit a brick wall with them. They have even said that it is beyond their control and told me to speak to HTC directly, which again imo is shoddy service as I have bought a T-mobile branded phone.....of course i know tmobile don't make the phone, but surely as it is branded such it is TMobile that should be sorting it out?

I have been without the phone for about a month now and getting very fed up with the service I am (not) receiving....anyone have any hints or tips as to how i could get them to sort the phone? Surely, the Sale of Goods act means that any product sold with an 18 month warranty should be fit for purpose for at least that? I'm struggling to get through to any customer liasons departments, just generally clueless people in call centres who just say "Sorry there's nothing I can do", which isn't good enough!

Any tips guys? I've managed to acquire the email address of the managing director and i've fired off an email to him, but the likelihood of him actually reading it is quite slim I imagine.

I've very recently taken another contract out with tmobile for my girflriend, yesterday in fact, do you think this could be used as leverage? It's on a £32.50 a month contract and I have 14 days to cancel the contract......

I know there are a few Tmobile staff here too, so if anyone could perhaps pull some strings it'd be massively appreciated....I know a fair few Retail staff, I'm even on a friends and family contract, but as i know all to well the retail staff are ultimately powerless when it comes to repairs!

Tom.

Dolph · 12 Dec 2007 at 11:19

The sales of goods act only covers inherant faults, and the onus is on you after 6 months to prove that the fault is inherant, and not something that could have come from anything else. It's also worth noting that if the charge is from the repair centre, any obligations under the SOGA are with the dealer you purchased the phone from, no-one else. (So depending on the structure of the stores and how they are managed, you may not be dealing with the dealer).

Have they said why they have charged you? Normally it will be because of damage of some sort (most commonly water) rather than for the simple repair.

Fr0dders · 12 Dec 2007 at 11:47

i usually the find best the best way to make a complaint with regards this sort of thing is to escalate it

ring and speak to the call centre, explain your problem politely and calmly. Let them again explain that they cant help (they probably cant and are telling the truth) and then reply that you'd like to speak to some1 that can, namely their manager

i've worked in call centres, and depending on the person you're speaking to. You may get put through to a manager, but more likely the person sitting next to them. if they give you the same line from a script, ask for their official job title. If they get all cagey and refuse to actually confirm they are the Customer Service Manager / Team leader or whatever they're just another bod "being the manager for the day" usually somebody allocated to deal with problem customers who just want to vent

When they give you the same spiel explain that you'd like to speak to their manager. If they are unavailable, get their name and get them to call you back.

Fundamentally, at the end of the day, the team / department manager will have the power to refund you the £55. The bods on the end of the phone at the first line probably dont

it may well be that the manager disagrees and refuses to refund you, but you stand a better chance of at least getting something (some free airtime or whatever) speaking to a proper manager, rather than just a customer service bod.

alexslane · 12 Dec 2007 at 11:52

Hey mate, sorry to hear about the vario. Right i used to work for t-mobile and the problem you got is this, normally they would have offered you a contract extension to get you a new vario because the fault that you have is outside of the warranty , now i know that this does not solve the initial problem with the handset but it would seem that the usb port is not something that is covered under the warranty.
Now as i mentioned with a contract extension they let you upgrade like a standard upgrade and just add 12 months on the end of your contract end date, but this option is not available for somebody with what they call freinds and relations.
How long do you have left in the contract then mate?.
Sorry the info i gave you was not more positive mate.
Alex slane

rG-tom · 12 Dec 2007 at 11:58

alexslane said:
Hey mate, sorry to hear about the vario. Right i used to work for t-mobile and the problem you got is this, normally they would have offered you a contract extension to get you a new vario because the fault that you have is outside of the warranty , now i know that this does not solve the initial problem with the handset but it would seem that the usb port is not something that is covered under the warranty.
Now as i mentioned with a contract extension they let you upgrade like a standard upgrade and just add 12 months on the end of your contract end date, but this option is not available for somebody with what they call freinds and relations.
How long do you have left in the contract then mate?.
Sorry the info i gave you was not more positive mate.
Alex slane

they have actually offered me a contract extension but want me to pay in excess of £200 for a new handset as I "havn't built up enough credit" to get one for a reasonable amount.

My contract is an 18 month one that began in february, so aprox half way through?

rG-tom · 12 Dec 2007 at 12:00

Dolph said:
Have they said why they have charged you? Normally it will be because of damage of some sort (most commonly water) rather than for the simple repair.

The repair note just says physical damage that is not covered by the manufacturer warranty, and that's it really.

Thanks for all the info guys, Ill try again later to get this escalated. I'd be happy to extend my contract and pay a reasonable amount to get an upgrade to the later phone (~40-50) but i refuse to pay £55 to have a phone repaired that shouldn't need repairing!

Tom.

rG-tom · 12 Dec 2007 at 13:16

on the phone to them at the moment again and i had another scottish lady spouting the same information "if it is physically damaged then you will have to pay as its not covered by the warranty"

waiting for her manager to speak to me now, surely I'm not wrong in thinking that a charging port, something that is subject to physical stress every day should be built to withstand the stresses of plugging in and unplugging the phone?

Tom.

Fr0dders · 12 Dec 2007 at 13:53

i dont think its reasonable to say that a charger connector should break within 8 months

i warned you you'd just get another monkey reading from a script

if this is the first time you escalate it, expect to get another script reading monkey who says the same thing. Its very common to get dummy managers in call centres just to give people somebody to vent to, thinking they're speaking to a manager

they obviously have a policy, that the warranty covers x, and if its Y thats failed then you can get stuffed, so the script reader on the end of the phone wont have the power to overturn that. Need to get to a manger who has the power to actually do something, as opposed to just reading from the book of policies and procedures.

Besides, sale of goods act says that an item would remain defect free for a reasonable period of time. Im pretty sure any small claim courts would agree with you, that 8 months isnt anywhere near how long you'd expect a phone to remain defect free. But the problem you've got, as Dolph has said is that this contract with SOG is with the seller, and T mobile may not technically be the seller. Try and see if you can find out if the T mobile store you bought it from, is T mobile, or if theres some small print that actually says you bought it from Mobile Phones of manchester or whoever.

rG-tom · 12 Dec 2007 at 15:06

MrLOL said:
i dont think its reasonable to say that a charger connector should break within 8 months

i warned you you'd just get another monkey reading from a script if this is the first time you escalate it, expect to get another script reading monkey who says the same thing. Its very common to get dummy managers in call centres just to give people somebody to vent to, thinking they're speaking to a manager

they obviously have a policy, that the warranty covers x, and if its Y thats failed then you can get stuffed, so the script reader on the end of the phone wont have the power to overturn that. Need to get to a manger who has the power to actually do something, as opposed to just reading from the book of policies and procedures.

Besides, sale of goods act says that an item would remain defect free for a reasonable period of time. Im pretty sure any small claim courts would agree with you, that 8 months isnt anywhere near how long you'd expect a phone to remain defect free. But the problem you've got, as Dolph has said is that this contract with SOG is with the seller, and T mobile may not technically be the seller. Try and see if you can find out if the T mobile store you bought it from, is T mobile, or if theres some small print that actually says you bought it from Mobile Phones of manchester or whoever.

the store is definitely a tmobile store and not a franchise, i actually was within days of becoming a member of their staff until my current company rethought its value of me and gave me my own store to manage. They are definitely one centrally managed company though.

I have been told i should recieve a call within 3-5 hours from her duty manager....quite why it takes so long is beyond me :s

Wicksta · 12 Dec 2007 at 16:57

rG-tom said:
the store is definitely a tmobile store and not a franchise, i actually was within days of becoming a member of their staff until my current company rethought its value of me and gave me my own store to manage. They are definitely one centrally managed company though.

I have been told i should recieve a call within 3-5 hours from her duty manager....quite why it takes so long is beyond me :s

It will be shift change by then so the people you spoke to won't care anymore.

I had exactly the same thing happen to an O2 XDA 2i (also made by HTC), the docking connector in the bottom of the phone broke. It looked like a fatigue issue and after plugging it in and out every day gradually broke it. I'm sorry to say I didn't try and get it replaced though as it was quite old and I got a newer XDA free to replace it. Good luck, and I really hope you get somewhere as this is obviously a common issue with these devices having connectors not fit for purpose.

Dolph · 12 Dec 2007 at 18:36

MrLOL said:
i dont think its reasonable to say that a charger connector should break within 8 months

i warned you you'd just get another monkey reading from a script if this is the first time you escalate it, expect to get another script reading monkey who says the same thing. Its very common to get dummy managers in call centres just to give people somebody to vent to, thinking they're speaking to a manager

they obviously have a policy, that the warranty covers x, and if its Y thats failed then you can get stuffed, so the script reader on the end of the phone wont have the power to overturn that. Need to get to a manger who has the power to actually do something, as opposed to just reading from the book of policies and procedures.

I'm going to say something here. There is a difference between can do something and will do something, and further more, just because someone gives a decision that you don't agree with, it doesn't follow they can't make a decision.

I say this because the number of times I've heard "I want to talk to someone who can make a decision" or "I want to talk to someone who can give me the money" gets silly. Most of the time, you are speaking to someone who can make a decision of one sort or another, the real issue is that you don't like their decision.

It's not as simple as thinking "the customer wants this, I'll do it", there are other considerations that have to be made, and very few cases are identical, and that's without getting into the idea of something being done as goodwill.

I'm not passing comment on the OP's situation, I don't have enough information to make an informed judgement on it, but I would advise against the assumption that just because they won't do what you want, they are unable to do it, it's also entirely possible they are able to make the decision, you just don't like the decision that's been made.

rG-tom · 12 Dec 2007 at 18:59

Well, a good bit of news.....I had a call from the directors office of tmobile, but i was unfortauntely not in a position to talk at that moment in time so the very courteous lady is calling me back tomorrow

This hopefully means business, I honestly didn't expect anything to come of my email to the MD

Tom.

Dolph · 12 Dec 2007 at 20:08

Sounds hopeful, at the very least, you'll get a definitive answer

Fr0dders · 13 Dec 2007 at 09:12

Dolph said:
I say this because the number of times I've heard "I want to talk to someone who can make a decision" or "I want to talk to someone who can give me the money" gets silly. Most of the time, you are speaking to someone who can make a decision of one sort or another, the real issue is that you don't like their decision.

i know where you're comming from

i've sat on both sides of this type of scenario. Ive had completely unreasonable requests made, like free next day european delivery when the company didnt have even have a next day european delivery service, let alone give it free. Person in question thought she could get this if she screamed enough and went high enough.

I agree its annoying when people do that

but similarly, sitting on the OPs side, he has a genuine reason for complaining about this. £55 repair for an 8 month old phone under additional warranty is not acceptable, there policies and procedures or not

in that type of scenario, you wouldnt just lie down and pay it and say "oh well i guess if its their policy to do that, they must be right"

Dolph said:
I'm not passing comment on the OP's situation, I don't have enough information to make an informed judgement on it, but I would advise against the assumption that just because they won't do what you want, they are unable to do it, it's also entirely possible they are able to make the decision, you just don't like the decision that's been made.

they may well be able to overturn it. But if they do have the powers to overturn it, why is everybody quoting from the same script ? good customer service is about not reading from a script and taking each case on its own merit, and actually taking steps to own the problem and help the customer to resolve it. Not just quote "sorry our policy says we cant do that". When i get that blanket response without any real consideration for the matter, i'll just speak to somebody else who is at least going to make some effort as opposed to just reading from a script.

Dolph · 13 Dec 2007 at 10:01

MrLOL said:
i know where you're comming from

i've sat on both sides of this type of scenario. Ive had completely unreasonable requests made, like free next day european delivery when the company didnt have even have a next day european delivery service, let alone give it free. Person in question thought she could get this if she screamed enough and went high enough.

I agree its annoying when people do that

but similarly, sitting on the OPs side, he has a genuine reason for complaining about this. £55 repair for an 8 month old phone under additional warranty is not acceptable, there policies and procedures or not

in that type of scenario, you wouldnt just lie down and pay it and say "oh well i guess if its their policy to do that, they must be right"

they may well be able to overturn it. But if they do have the powers to overturn it, why is everybody quoting from the same script ? good customer service is about not reading from a script and taking each case on its own merit, and actually taking steps to own the problem and help the customer to resolve it. Not just quote "sorry our policy says we cant do that". When i get that blanket response without any real consideration for the matter, i'll just speak to somebody else who is at least going to make some effort as opposed to just reading from a script.

Because the charge has nothing to do with T-mobile, it's been applied by HTC because the handset is damaged (by their account) not faulty. T-mobile are not responsible for the charge, they haven't applied it, it's not coming to them. So what you're really asking them to do is pay the charge on your behalf, rather than waive the charge, because you disagree with the third party manufacturer's statement that the phone is damaged. That's really something that should be argued with the third party, not with the network provider.

rG-tom · 13 Dec 2007 at 11:26

Dolph said:
Because the charge has nothing to do with T-mobile, it's been applied by HTC because the handset is damaged (by their account) not faulty. T-mobile are not responsible for the charge, they haven't applied it, it's not coming to them. So what you're really asking them to do is pay the charge on your behalf, rather than waive the charge, because you disagree with the third party manufacturer's statement that the phone is damaged. That's really something that should be argued with the third party, not with the network provider.

i see where you're coming from, BUT tmobile decided to brand this phone as their own, so surely as far as i'm concerned it's their responsibility to sort out their supplier?

For example, I am the manager for the branch of a large camera chain, with quite a few bits and bobs branded by ourselves but in actual fact made by small companies like texet etc. Whenever anyone has a problem with this equipment, it's OUR problem as we branded it, wouldn't even dream of asking a customer to speak to texet and sort it out with them.

rG-tom · 13 Dec 2007 at 14:10

OK that's good, I've had a proper conversation with the lady from the directors office. She couldn't replace the phone, but has agreed to pay for its repair, which I am fine with

Tom.

Wicksta · 13 Dec 2007 at 14:17

Nice to hear you got a result! It just goes to show that with a bit of effort you can get a reasonable decision out of companies.