Many people would back raising the alcohol age limit to 21

[Darkwave]

Yes that'll solve the problem

Where did I say it would?

How many times have I said in this thread that the problem won't go away without massive improvements in education, general social attitudes and parenting??

Please actually read what I'm saying before you reply to me in future, all I said there was that when I used to go out I found most troublemakers were my age (~18, college/uni age) and that increasing the legal drinking age would keep people that age out of clubs/pubs.

What I did not say is that it would solve the problem entirely, nor did I say all troublemakers are under 21.

 

[crowhorse]

Where did I say it would?

How many times have I said in this thread that the problem won't go away without massive improvements in education, general social attitudes and parenting??

Please actually read what I'm saying before you reply to me in future, all I said there was that when I used to go out I found most troublemakers were my age (~18, college/uni age) and that increasing the legal drinking age would keep people that age out of clubs/pubs.

What I did not say is that it would solve the problem entirely, nor did I say all troublemakers are under 21.

Ok, so yes it would keep people that age out of clubs/pubs.

But the trouble makers of that age would just move elsewhere.

I don't think it would even slightly solve the problem, but make it worse.

It would increase the illegal underage drinking community, substantially.

Plus, the 18yo binge drinkers would simply become 21yo binge drinkers - this is exactly what happened in the states and will happen here too.

Do you really want to let a few yobs ruin everybody else's fun? If that happens then they're winning :S

What needs to be done is to address the trouble makers, by taking away legal alcohol, it will just make more illegal drinkers.

 

[Darkwave]

So, what, are you taking the "don't worry about it, the whole thing will blow over" approach?

I'm seeing a lot of no suggestions at all from the anti-increase crowd.

 

[crowhorse]

So, what, are you taking the "don't worry about it, the whole thing will blow over" approach?

I'm seeing a lot of no suggestions at all from the anti-increase crowd.

Well... kill all chavs is a good start... lol

Seriously though, I wouldn't have a clue how to deal with the yobs and from what I've read neither do you. Need to kick some sense into them, but the real question is how.

 

[Muffin`]

I'm seeing a lot of no suggestions at all from the anti-increase crowd.

The same can be said for the Increase crowd, they admit it won't solve the under lying issue but meerley push them from safe town centers to House parties and Parks putting more strain on the Police.

By not increasing it it will not cause the issues that increasing would cause.

 

[Darkwave]

Well... kill all chavs is a good start... lol

Seriously though, I wouldn't have a clue how to deal with the yobs and from what I've read neither do you. Need to kick some sense into them, but the real question is how.

You can't really but something does need to be done until there are some reforms in education and parenting. The only real cure here is prevention at the source.

The same can be said for the Increase crowd, they admit it won't solve the under lying issue but meerley push them from safe town centers to House parties and Parks putting more strain on the Police.

By not increasing it it will not cause the issues that increasing would cause.

It's the job of the police to deal with people like this and I'm sure they won't complain about sorting out yobs, and I personally have no problem with the police being used as a bigger deterrent to such behaviour.

Yes I haven't come up with an awe-inspiring solution which is why I'm not a politician, if I could do that I'd be the best politician ever. But all I'm hearing from the anti-limit crowd is "won't work, who cares."

That's not the attitude we need. Apathy is probably the major reason education and parenting suck today.

 

[Muffin`]

nm

 

[Muffin`]

It's the job of the police to deal with people like this and I'm sure they won't complain about sorting out yobs, and I personally have no problem with the police being used as a bigger deterrent to such behaviour.

Yes I haven't come up with an awe-inspiring solution which is why I'm not a politician, if I could do that I'd be the best politician ever. But all I'm hearing from the anti-limit crowd is "won't work, who cares."

That's not the attitude we need. Apathy is probably the major reason education and parenting suck today.

But the increase will cause more issue, so, whats the point in raising it?

 

[Darkwave]

But the increase will cause more issue, so, whats the point in raising it?

I'm not entirely sure it will.

If off-licences, pubs and clubs actually do their jobs and enforce the law in their establishments, not serving to persons underage, then they're not going to get hold of it.

If underage drinking increases then it's not the policy to blame, it's the people selling it.

 

[vincent1989]

I'm not entirely sure it will.

If off-licences, pubs and clubs actually do their jobs and enforce the law in their establishments, not serving to persons underage, then they're not going to get hold of it.

in a perfect world, yes, but there will always be people and parents willing to buy it for those underage, either because they are affraid of those teenages, or because they couldn't give a damn about the laws.

while it is also partially the job of those places to ensure people aren't buying it for those underage it is something that is IMPOSSIBLE to recognise whilst at a till (or what not)

 

[Darkwave]

in a perfect world, yes, but there will always be people and parents willing to buy it for those underage, either because they are affraid of those teenages, or because they couldn't give a damn about the laws.

Yeah and I agree, which is why I keep saying the problem of binge drinking culture and trouble making won't go away until there's some serious reforms in education, parenting, and the general attitude of this country.

 

[Muffin`]

Things which are a bit naughty are more cool to be done, its simple human reaction, especially for teenagers.
We can see this now with alcohol and smoking, you agree that there should be an education of children about alcohol, so turning round saying "We want you to drink responsibly, but we feel that your no longer responsible to decide for yourself so wait till your 21, but you have to pay taxes, and get a job though."

But people who are underage now get it from their parents, or steal it from parents, some off license give it kids they know, as its a sale, that will not stop, all places get the police checking it out but still make those sales.

If the 16 year olds, were allowed a few pints in a pub they could be introduced to drinking responsibly, necking Vodka in a park is not an introduction to alcohol, expect this will increase to the age 20 age group, which will result in more people taking it too far.

 

[vincent1989]

Yeah and I agree, which is why I keep saying the problem of binge drinking culture and trouble making won't go away until there's some serious reforms in education, parenting, and the general attitude of this country.

and until such time a total ban is the only thing i cans see working, we've gone to far in the wrong direction (mostly due to archaic laws and lack of useful education) for a limit, or a decrease in limit (to those of someother countries in europe) to work. it would just increase statistics for underage drinking, and cause more problems for the police/supermarkets/etc if we raise it, and if we lower it, well, it just legalises our youth getting smashed off their faces (they will do it either way)

we need a cleansing of it from the system before it can be re introduced

 

[Darkwave]

and until such time a total ban is the only thing i cans see working, we've gone to far in the wrong direction (mostly due to archaic laws i agree) for a limit, or a decrease in limit (to those of someother countries in europe) to work. it would just increase statistics for underage drinking, and cause more problems for the police/supermarkets/etc if we raise it, and if we lower it, well, it just legalises our youth getting smashed off their faces (they will do it either way)

we need a cleansing of it from the system before it can be re introduced

TBH I can see myself agreeing with that the way things are going and I am one of those who enjoys a good drink now and again. Maybe a total ban is the answer.

Can't wait to see some reactions to this post.

 

[vincent1989]

TBH I can see myself agreeing with that the way things are going and I am one of those who enjoys a good drink now and again. Maybe a total ban is the answer.

Can't wait to see some reactions to this post.

i fully expect most people to disagree with me, but then most druggies would disagree if you attempted to take their drugs away (not that the illegality of them has doen anything to stym this)

 

[Gimpymoo]

What would all the numptys do who's only hobby is getting trollied?

Saying that, if they banned the Internet.....................

 

[Hawk Tuah]

A total ban on alcohol. Ha ha yer Ok mate.

 

[vincent1989]

A total ban on alcohol. Ha ha yer Ok mate.

maybe a little less alcohol damage to your brain would have enabled you to spell 'yeah' without sounding like a chav?

 

[Muffin`]

i fully expect most people to disagree with me, but then most druggies would disagree if you attempted to take their drugs away (not that the illegality of them has doen anything to stym this)

Do you know what happened in the 20's in the States when they tried that?

 

[Mephisto]

maybe a little less alcohol damage to your brain would have enabled you to spell 'yeah' without sounding like a chav?

LOL