Thank you BMW DSC!

[Clarkey]

I think you'll find very few people who will go "DSC doesn't work properly - it's rubbish". Most people are shocked at how good systems like DSC are. You may not like it - that's fine. What you cannot do, however, is refute it's abilities.

sorry, I was talking about the active steering.

All that techy stuff sounds very good and highly advanced, also sounds ferociously expensive to fix should it go wrong .


I'm interested, how does the BMW system compare with that of other manufacturers, do they all do pretty much the same thing or is DSC more advanced than most?

 

[5tephen]

fair enough, but i'm not convinced by it, and by the sounds of it, neither are very many people, perhaps there is a reason for that.

I don't know anybody who isn't convinced by it?
Without DSC I'd be lifting my car out of a hedge every week. It's active all the time, not just when you've lost control of the car. I wouldn't corner anywhere near the speed I do at the minute if it didn't exist. You may be a super driver but if you go round corners at DSC-intervening speeds in a non-DSC car, you're going to go round sideways. Whether you can handle it or not, sideways cornering on everyday roads tends not to be a feature in too many people's driving habits

 

[Clarkey]

I don't know anybody who isn't convinced by it?
Without DSC I'd be lifting my car out of a hedge every week. It's active all the time, not just when you've lost control of the car. I wouldn't corner anywhere near the speed I do at the minute if it didn't exist. You may be a super driver but if you go round corners at DSC-intervening speeds in a non-DSC car, you're going to go round sideways. Whether you can handle it or not, sideways cornering on everyday roads tends not to be a feature in too many people's driving habits

as above, I was talking about active steering.

However it also worth noting that I think you should stop driving so fast, if you are driving as fast as you make out to be, one day that big beemer WILL end up in the hedgerow.
I think now is an appropriate time to mention how Fox managed to put his 5 into a ditch and smash it up even when DSC was on, and I know for a fact he doesn't drive crazily.

 

[Lopéz]

I don't know anybody who isn't convinced by it?
Without DSC I'd be lifting my car out of a hedge every week. It's active all the time, not just when you've lost control of the car. I wouldn't corner anywhere near the speed I do at the minute if it didn't exist. You may be a super driver but if you go round corners at DSC-intervening speeds in a non-DSC car, you're going to go round sideways. Whether you can handle it or not, sideways cornering on everyday roads tends not to be a feature in too many people's driving habits

Sounds like you drive way past the limits of your ability and just hope DSC will bail you out.

I'd be ashamed of myself, not proud.

 

[Clarkey]

Sounds like you drive way past the limits of your ability and just hope DSC will bail you out.

I'd be ashamed of myself, not proud.

hear hear

 

[PMKeates]

Sounds like you drive way past the limits of your ability and just hope DSC will bail you out.

I'd be ashamed of myself, not proud.

I see no difference with that and driving a car with power steering if you have weak arms.

 

[DRZ]

Sounds like you drive way past the limits of your ability and just hope DSC will bail you out.

I'd be ashamed of myself, not proud.

Not only past his own limits but rapidly approaching the limits of the car.


One day, physics will catch up with him.

PMKeates - the difference is that power steering makes low speed driving less effort whereas driving around with the DSC light blinking away at every corner indicates you have a penis attached to your forehead.

 

[Clarkey]

I see no difference with that and driving a car with power steering if you have weak arms.

well then you are incredibly naive

 

[Matt82]

Sounds like you drive way past the limits of your ability and just hope DSC will bail you out.

I'd be ashamed of myself, not proud.

yup. learn to drive properly lol

 

[PMKeates]

sorry, I was talking about the active steering.

All that techy stuff sounds very good and highly advanced, also sounds ferociously expensive to fix should it go wrong .


I'm interested, how does the BMW system compare with that of other manufacturers, do they all do pretty much the same thing or is DSC more advanced than most?

I imagine Active Steering is one of those things that will be a nightmare to fix, but because of the fact that it runs on manual backup when it fails, I can see lots of manual-mode Active Steering cars in 10 years time

BMW DSC, VAG ESP, Mercedes ESP - all pretty much the same really

 

[PMKeates]

PMKeates - the difference is that power steering makes low speed driving less effort whereas driving around with the DSC light blinking away at every corner indicates you have a penis attached to your forehead.

Power steering makes low speed driving less effort, DSC makes high speed driving less effort. If you drive particularly quickly DSC will make many small adjustments. If it doesn't engage, then you really aren't driving that fast for the car. DSC will engage WELL before the physical limits of the car are reached.

 

[5tephen]

as above, I was talking about active steering.

However it also worth noting that I think you should stop driving so fast, if you are driving as fast as you make out to be, one day that big beemer WILL end up in the hedgerow.
I think now is an appropriate time to mention how Fox managed to put his 5 into a ditch and smash it up even when DSC was on, and I know for a fact he doesn't drive crazily.

OK re. first sentence, I quoted you before you had made your reply.
And I was exaggerating obviously to make my point I'm not trying to act big & hard etc. I rarely have the DSC light come on and am particularly cautious in the wet. But if I drove my old Merc C250 at the speeds I drive the 530d, the car wouldn't stick it. That's stating the obvious though, given the 10 years of advancement in technology.

 

[Clarkey]

Power steering makes low speed driving less effort, DSC makes high speed driving less effort.

incredible that you could actually come out with such a ridiculously naive comment like that.

I think the biggest difference here is that one of these things is inherently dangerous whereas the other is clearly not.

 

[5tephen]

Good lord look at the number of replies that have jumped up in the time I have tried to put a post together

 

[nicRob]

I agree with Lopez and Clarkey here, driving in such a manner that you're relying on the cars computers to keep you on the road is inevitably going to cause an accident one day, and whilst I wish that no-one gets injured, I hope it'll make you re-consider how you drive

 

[PMKeates]

incredible that you could actually come out with such a ridiculously naive comment like that.

I think the biggest difference here is that one of these things is inherently dangerous whereas the other is clearly not.

Not so. Power steering alters the steering force significantly when cornering hard, in my experience. With power steering the force required to turn the wheels is virtually linear with speed, whereas without it cornering hard requires a very firm grip, as forces on the wheels have to be managed directly by the driver. Power steering is a driving aid that alters people's driving. People will generally drive faster with it, because it's easier to do so and feels safer and more comfortable. DSC is the same.

If my car had no DSC, no ABS, no power steering and no assisted brakes, yet the same power, I'd drive it a HELL of a lot slower. Why? Because as a driving machine, it would be less capable. At what point does the perfect balance between automation and manual control exist? Why don't you fit an anchor to your car?

 

[Gilly]

These conditions don't suit a car with no driver aids in the slightest.

In the conditions described in the OP I'd have been stacked into. I'm pretty sure of it.

On ice I simply wouldn't be able to retain enough control to steer out of the way.

My car has certainly taught me a lot about myself and the road.

 

[PMKeates]

What car do you drive, Gilly?

 

[[TW]Fox]

Without DSC I'd be lifting my car out of a hedge every week. It's active all the time, not just when you've lost control of the car. I wouldn't corner anywhere near the speed I do at the minute if it didn't exist.

You need to make a choice. It's a hard choice, but its a choice you MUST make before something happens.

A) Replace your car with a Focus 1.6
B) STOP driving like that and give the car more respect. DSC cannot and will not defy the laws of physics nor is it infallible. You should NEVER rely on it.

It's there to help you WHEN YOU MAKE A MISTAKE and not to enable you to corner faster than you otherwise would. Every time the light goes on, it means you've screwed up. You've done something wrong. Usually with too much right foot.

Driving highish powered RWD cars takes responsbility. If you do not give the car the respect it deserves it WILL bite you.

For helping you out when you make a little error, like too much throttle off a roundabout, etc etc, DSC is fantastic, however.

 

[mrk]

fair enough, but i'm not convinced by it, and by the sounds of it, neither are very many people, perhaps there is a reason for that.

Which many people? from the sounds of it those impressed by it are those of us who have had a great benefit at one point (or more) whilst driving in poor road conditions.

Dunno about you but I'm much happier and confident knowing that if something should happen a system is in place to help me regain control of the vehicle. Housemaster's quote of how both systems work has cleared thigs up greatly, seems it's more complex and does more computing than I originally imagined!

Remember not everyone is a race driver on weekends and is able to regain control from any driving hazard in a split second!

Also I don't recall ever seeing in the news or papers that a DSC/ASC enabled vehicle lost control and crashed ! you'd have thought this would be the case with the amount of 1999+ E46 models about

Physics

;D