why do we blank out the word god?

yantorsen said:
But faith is not blind, because faith itself carries with it the ideas of, belief, trust, and commitment, and is therefore only as robust as the evidence for it.
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Well that is the central point isn't it? There is no evidence.
 
yantorsen said:
Faith in the flying spaghetti monster of Richard Dawkins, is blind because there is no evidence for the flying spaghetti monster.
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Hold up a second, you can't have it both ways. If you want to say that written or spoken accounts are evidence (and I'll agree they are) then you can't dismiss FSMism just because you don't like it, it is evidence in exactly the same way as the Bible is evidence. Also Bobby Henderson might be a little bit peeved that you've passed his faith off onto Richard Dawkins.
 
semi-pro waster said:
Hold up a second, you can't have it both ways. If you want to say that written or spoken accounts are evidence (and I'll agree they are) then you can't dismiss FSMism just because you don't like it, it is evidence in exactly the same way as the Bible is evidence. Also Bobby Henderson might be a little bit peeved that you've passed his faith off onto Richard Dawkins.
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Richard dawkins goes on about it in his book, which i why i said dawkins.

but keep reading it will make sense...
 
yantorsen said:
I cannot speak for other religions, but faith in the Christian sense is not blind. And I do not know a serious Christian who thinks it is.
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This might be stating the obvious but I'd think it rather odd if any Christian did want to proclaim their faith as blind.

yantorsen said:
Indeed, as it says, blind faith in idols and figments of the human imagination, (in other words delusional Gods), is roundly condemned in the bible.
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Worshipping false idols is certainly condemned in the Bible, again it would be a bit odd if it wasn't. If we allow for a second that the Bible is in fact the literal word of God then it wouldn't make much sense to say "and worship whatsoever you want".

yantorsen said:
My faith in God and Christ as the son of god is no delusion, it is rational and evidence based, part of that evidence is objective, some of it comes from science, some from history, and some is subjective coming from experience.

Now when I said proof before hand I meant proof for me, enough evidence in other words to convince me, or in other words beyond reasonable doubt, proof is only possible in the strict sense to get in mathematics. For every other field you can't really speak of proof, but evidence and pointers of convinced beyond reasonable doubt.
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If you have enough proof to satisfy yourself about the existence of God then that is fine but you can't expect everyone to share your views on the matter. We've already established that witness statements can be unreliable and that is what the Bible primarily consists of.

yantorsen said:
It is important to note that science is limited, it seems that there is a danger of linking science with rationality, but what is beyond science isn't always necessarily irational, for instance science does not tell us if a poem or literature, work of art, or a piece of music, is beautiful or good?

Science can tell you that if you sufficiently poison someone they'll die, but it doesn't tell you if it's morally right to do so.

Science has it's limitations, as pointed out by sir peter medawar, and you can easily see it's limits,
it cannot answer the elementry questions of a child, “who am I?” “what is the purpose of my exsistance”, “where am I going?”

that will do for now.
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Absolutely science is limited, it is designed to be predictively accurate, no more and no less. If you want to believe anything else of it then you have to have faith, as stated in the other thread about Atheism.
 
yantorsen said:
well make of it what you will then, clearly shows how faith is not blind though.
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No it doesn't. Without proof any faith is blind faith.

I find it odd that the bible speaks out against 'delusional gods'. It actually says not to follow it in it?

Christ, thats crazy!
 
Gilly said:
No it doesn't. Without proof any faith is blind faith.

I find it odd that the bible speaks out against 'delusional gods'. It actually says not to follow it in it?

Christ, thats crazy!
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so everything you beleive in is blind faith? as you have no proof of anything, the only field proof is actually there is mathamatics.
 
yantorsen said:
so everything you beleive in is blind faith? as you have no proof of anything, the only field proof is actually there is mathamatics.
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So there is no proof in anything ever?

You're making less and less sense with every post.
 
yantorsen said:
well, its common knowledge that nothing can be proven for definate, just beyond reasonable doubt. except for in the field of maths.
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In that case, given that the only 'evidence' you have is word of mouth regarding experiences of people, are you saying that you were wrong and that you don't have proof, where previously you said you did?
 
yantorsen said:
My faith in God and Christ as the son of god is no delusion, it is rational and evidence based, part of that evidence is objective, some of it comes from science, some from history, and some is subjective coming from experience.
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What evidence:confused:
 
Gilly said:
In that case, given that the only 'evidence' you have is word of mouth regarding experiences of people, are you saying that you were wrong and that you don't have proof, where previously you said you did?
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proven beyond reasonable doubt in my mind.
 
yantorsen said:
My faith in God and Christ as the son of god is no delusion, it is rational
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Since no one can prove beyond doubt that God exists (until he makes an appearance I suppose) how is it rational?

yantorsen said:
and evidence based, part of that evidence is objective, some of it comes from science, some from history, and some is subjective coming from experience.
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I have yet to find any evidence that God exists (I do not however disbelieve in a god, just have no proof either way) What is this evidence?

yantorsen said:
Now when I said proof before hand I meant proof for me, enough evidence in other words to convince me, or in other words beyond reasonable doubt, proof is only possible in the strict sense to get in mathematics. For every other field you can't really speak of proof, but evidence and pointers of convinced beyond reasonable doubt.
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Ah! Proof for you, and of course you are infallible? Who is to say you are right?

In my opinion the only sensible approach is to be a strong agnostic.
the view that the question of the existence or nonexistence of an omnipotent God and the nature of ultimate reality is unknowable by reason of our natural inability to verify any experience with anything but another subjective experience.
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This to me is logical to the Nth degree.

Some may prefer Pragmatic agnosticism of course (the view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of God or gods.)

~S
 
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