The sooner more people start believing all that Dmpoole has summarised, the better to be honest. It's pretty much how things should be with fans of music.
But... I guess that would be boring...
There are 100s of bands as 'good' as Oasis
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The sooner more people start believing all that Dmpoole has summarised, the better to be honest. It's pretty much how things should be with fans of music.
But... I guess that would be boring...
Although this is an accusation that has been levelled at me, that has never been my intention. I have freely admitted that there are very talented musicians in the metal genre. I also freely admit that I detest it and everything connected with it.
You can get by without any skill at all, thats my problem with it.
I'd say you could say the same about most genres.
I think Gilly's problem with relation to his argument is ignorance of the subject matter - but that's not his fault because most inventive bands are not pushed in the mainstream. If you look at all the 'metal' bands you see on MTV2 or Scuzz, you'll agree that they don't give metal a good name or are a good reflection of what the genre is capable of overall. Posting Maudlin of the Well, Atrox, Watchtower or Spastic Ink songs won't help either to the uninitiated, they'll be too far-reaching and sound like a mess. It's like the difference between whispering Russian at someone or shouting it - they're not going to understand either way.
This should be the post to end this futile bickering.
But you can get by without any skill at all in indie, pop, rock n roll, dance, hiphop...Your entire reason for hating metal holds no water whatsoever.
Yes, you can 'get by' with very little skill but you can't make good music with very little skill; can you not see this?
*n
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You just described most Metal songs aswell
Insert random guitar thrashing, bit of shouty lyrics, job done.
And this is where the difference lies. It doesn't take much musicianship to be in an indie band whereas it can take immense amounts of skill to be in a metal band. I'd challenge anyone to show me an indie band that has a comparable skill level to Behold....The Arctopus, Forgotten Silence or Pain of Salvation.
Whilst I think everyone can agree metal is a very technical genre, I really don't understand the logic behind your post. What are you trying to prove?
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Not just you.
I've spent most of my 49 years either playing in bands or watching them.
I can honestly say that I have NEVER seen a band without any individual skills but putting those skills together as a team is another matter.
Sometimes musicians play out of their safety zone and even I have to tell my own band when they're not capable eg They're learning Number Of the Beast - forget it lads.
Lots of people believe the hype - eg Malcolm McLaren saying about the Pistols "They couldn't play their instruments" etc.
Oh yes they could, the Sex Pistols were a power force led by a bloke who 'sounded' like he was singing out of tune but obviously he wasn't.
The skill levels of bands like The Clash, The Jam and The Stranglers was very high too.
It did however spawn a lot of really crap bands because people believed the hype that anybody could pick up an instrument and play.
That leads us on to modern very heavy metal bands.
Lets say Metallica and Slayer started it for arguments sake.
All members of these two major bands were acclompished musicians who also knew how to put it together as a team.
Any young men coming along wanting to do the same would pick up there instruments and learn the songs meaning they were quite acclompished musicians.
Once again its when you put all these acclompished musicians in a team and they churn out poo.
It really grates my teeth when people say 'anybody can do that' because after 37 years of playing guitar in club, cabaret, pub, rock n roll, rockabilly, classic rock etc bands I still don't think I could share a stage with these very heavy metal bands.
I can't even get my classic rock voice to those growls because it takes a lot of practise.
In the early 80's I used to mix bands like Depeche Mode & Human League and it originally got my back up that they were standing there playing single notes on a synth.
I grew up and realised that they had to put those single notes in the right order and both bands made some cracking tunes.
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What happened to your love for The Haunted?
*n
To me they are just a normal rock band.
Some of the stuff you listen to is a bit way out there for me.
In my opinion (2+ years playing on the london live circuit (don't do it!!)), I think we are just in a cultural through at the moment caused by (amoung other things) a period of exceptional growth (culturally and commercially) in the music industry followed by the "industrialisation" of music (manufactured pop to the nth degree intended simply to shift cd units). Plus, the contemporary "pop idol" mentality (I want to be famous, and now I realy can be) leads to people wanting to reap the high profile benefits of music without understanding, appreciating or even caring about the subtle details of music itself.
Another issue I've discovered is the amateur live scene in London. It is a business supported by promoters intending to abuse the bands wanting to play. It's simply about sticking as many bands on in a night as possible and banking on them bringing their mates = $$$ for the promoter. One could argue that it is also good for bands, it means they get to practice their live show, playing to a crowd and getting on a bill in a big city. However, the effect of this "democratisation" is that because there are no longer any respected live venues that have a commitment to musical quality, it means that building a following in London is near impossible as you are always playing on a packed bill where typically the other bands are terrible/badly organised, so the chance of anyone actually turning up to hear good music is incredibly slim. Plus when booking gigs you are competing with countless other bands for a space on a decent night. The ultimate effect of this is that it becomes much harder for the truly good bands to shine through the mire, as there is just too much of it! Therefore, the likelihood of labels spotting these bands becomes smaller and they are forced to sign the bands they are aware of, which typically are not always that great - and that in turn can lead to a decrease in the quality of music being put out by the industry.
That's my experience anyways. So in answer to the thread, I'd say there are good bands out there, but unfortunately due to a number of smaller and wider issues, at this moment in time less of those "great" bands are being picked up than at any other time. In my opinion, this is the real reason behind the drop in CD sales and not the influence of downloading. Most, if not all cds released in the last decade will not continue to sell 2+ years after release, yet something like Dark Side of the Moon sold 1 million+ copies every year for 25 years after release - why is that? Its incredibly hard to quantise, but many would agree that the quality of music today is much much lower than even music for a decade ago. Yet the industry would have us believe that the fall in their sales is because of downloading? Hmm.
I wholeheartedly expect that sometime soon music will pick up again and magically CD sales will also pick up. For example, Ministry of Sound (who I work for) had their best selling cd OF ALL TIME last year (Anthems) - how is that possible if people are not buying cds any more? There must be demand still out there, but people obviously do not think that many cds are worth the money.
Long post, but hopefully there are a few insights in there.
Another issue I've discovered is the amateur live scene in London. It is a business supported by promoters intending to abuse the bands wanting to play. It's simply about sticking as many bands on in a night as possible and banking on them bringing their mates = $$$ for the promoter. One could argue that it is also good for bands, it means they get to practice their live show, playing to a crowd and getting on a bill in a big city. However, the effect of this "democratisation" is that because there are no longer any respected live venues that have a commitment to musical quality, it means that building a following in London is near impossible as you are always playing on a packed bill where typically the other bands are terrible/badly organised, so the chance of anyone actually turning up to hear good music is incredibly slim. Plus when booking gigs you are competing with countless other bands for a space on a decent night. The ultimate effect of this is that it becomes much harder for the truly good bands to shine through the mire, as there is just too much of it! Therefore, the likelihood of labels spotting these bands becomes smaller and they are forced to sign the bands they are aware of, which typically are not always that great - and that in turn can lead to a decrease in the quality of music being put out by the industry.
That's my experience anyways. So in answer to the thread, I'd say there are good bands out there, but unfortunately due to a number of smaller and wider issues, at this moment in time less of those "great" bands are being picked up than at any other time. In my opinion, this is the real reason behind the drop in CD sales and not the influence of downloading. Most, if not all cds released in the last decade will not continue to sell 2+ years after release, yet something like Dark Side of the Moon sold 1 million+ copies every year for 25 years after release - why is that? Its incredibly hard to quantise, but many would agree that the quality of music today is much much lower than even music for a decade ago. Yet the industry would have us believe that the fall in their sales is because of downloading? Hmm.
I wholeheartedly expect that sometime soon music will pick up again and magically CD sales will also pick up. For example, Ministry of Sound (who I work for) had their best selling cd OF ALL TIME last year (Anthems) - how is that possible if people are not buying cds any more? There must be demand still out there, but people obviously do not think that many cds are worth the money.
Long post, but hopefully there are a few insights in there.
Check out Rakoth. I'd call it greensleevescore
*n
Hehe, Lee signed them. I have a promo lying about somewhere but I haven't listened to it yet.
You just described most Metal songs aswell
Insert random guitar thrashing, bit of shouty lyrics, job done.
Im not sure i'm quite with you here.
Sure some of the punk bands live off punk covers, and some songs are re-done in a metal-esque fashion, but this pales in insignificance in comparison to dance where anything from Baywatch, Knight Rider, Chilli Peppers, Advert music, Old dance music, rock music, classical and just about anything with a tune, is sampled and remixed to high heaven. Hell, remixes make up about half the industry!
Sure theres original stuff coming out but its a trickle compared to the originality of the metal genre.
Could you elaborate a bit more please?
I thought they were one of Digby's babies?
Fear (wasnt in the design) is probably the most well-known track of theirs...Earache whored it on cover discs and compilations for about 18 months. Awesome song though. Flute and guitar for the win.
*n
Hmm well, Lee worked for Earache too [as I'm sure you know] and he probably passed them to Digby through A&R. That's my guess. But it's unlikely the two of them will ever speak again anyway
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As with any genre there is good and bad, im sure its the same with metal music. The dance music you mention is often nothing more than a pop/chart tune cashing in on something like you mentioned. The good club tunes rarely see the light of day to the general public.
Your point of view is common to people who dont like the genre and I would say my point of view about metal is the same.
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Check out Rakoth. I'd call it greensleevescore
*n
I prefer Hoven Groven