You brother gains the benefits of thousands of man hours the developers put into the game and to enjoy the finished product without giving anything back. My orignal comment was implying why try and justify it, hes a pirate so just admit it and not hide behind this excuse. Not having the means to pay for something is not justification to take it for free.
Games Piracy - What's your take on it?
- Thread starter BlackDragon
- Start date
You brother gains the benefits of thousands of man hours the developers put into the game and to enjoy the finished product without giving anything back. My orignal comment was implying why try and justify it, hes a pirate so just admit it and not hide behind this excuse. Not having the means to pay for something is not justification to take it for free.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
I must admit I'm a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to piracy. I don't have much of a problem with illegally downloading music, films and TV (not that I do it myself) but I do care when people illegally download games. But that's because it's something that will affect me some day if all goes well.
I buy games and software because I can't be bothered with the hassle that goes with dodgy copies, not being able to play games online and not being able to update Office but your copy is illegal.
For every illegal downloaded/copied and or game/software the developer and publisher etc loses money. Quite how you can't see this is baffling.
Based on your methodology, right now I can't quite afford the Audi RS4 I want but I will be able to in the near future, catch you all soon, I'm off to my localy Audi garage.
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Except that your example is entirely wrong, in every way.
It is nothing at all like going into a shop, and removing a physical item, so the shop has lost something.
As was mentioned above, about the guy who downloads the games, which he would never have bought in the first place. Nobody is loosing out, at all. The shop hasn't lost its TV/game, no sale has been lost, nothing has changed.
Downloading games to try before you buy?
I've done it. Some games, like recently UT3 and Crysis, I just bought without seeing them. Other games, I've tried first, some were crap and I've deleted them, others I couldn't buy quick enough.
Music? (I think I've used this on another thread in here somewhere)
but my passion is for very heavy music. It doesn't get much airtime, in fact, I have no way of hearing it until (1) a friend has bought it, and brought the CD around or (2) the internet. I've downloaded a lot of music, and on the back of that downloaded album, not just bought that CD, also bought all subsequent CDs, DVDs, T-Shirts, and gone to concerts of the group!
Yes, all from a chance download, to see what something is! I don't think that harmed anybody, except my own wallet!
Movies?
Sure, try before you buy sometimes.
I've downloaded films, that have been available months in advance of the retail release, only to make a pre-order of the DVD after seeing it. These days, with bluray, it's nice to get an idea of what the film is before splashing the cash, as if it's good, I'll preorder the bluray. Not harming sales, it's boosting them.
Now, not everybody downloads, and then purchases what they've downloaded. There are real criminals out there, who download games/cds/dvds and sell them by the thousand.
This is a totally different kettle of fish. You can't go comparing piracy rings, to this chap above, who can't afford games, wouldn't have bought the game, and has downloaded it for his own use. It's still a crime, but entirely, a victimless crime.
The subject of piracy can always raise the blood pressure a little.
I've had heated discussions with people, even down the pub, after Napster first came into being.
But being closed minded, and make stupid comments like
then they have no understanding of different people in the outside world. Just because if YOU downloaded something, and then wouldn't bother to buy it afterwards, doesn't mean the rest of us wouldn't/don't.
As it happens, I haven't downloaded any games in a long time. I'm just making these points as I do understand that people do, and I do know that some people who do, will then go out and buy the game/cd/dvd, and quite possibly, subsequent releases from the same people.
You can't tarnish all people with the same brush, we're all different.
Enough with comparing software piracy to physical piracy though, it's nothing like the same thing, if the person doing the downloading was never going to buy whatever they're downloading in the first place, and of course, so long as they don't go selling it!! Selling dodgy software is something that does make by blood boil!
V1N.
EDIT: I should also add, with regard to the CDs I was talking about above, where I mentioned I've bought each subsequent CD, and gone to concerts etc... I also played the CD to a number of mates, who also rushed out to get the CD, and came to concerts with me, bought DVDs, etc... all off the back of a chance download to check a group out! In what way is that harming any industry?
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i do empathise with his brother ok its not quite stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family but i do kinda get the point (i was in exactly the same boat) and there were times we'd chip into some1 buying the game so we could get a copy of them or just download games off the net because i couldn't afford them when i was at college.
and although you are stealing something (i hold no stock in this "its not a phisical item rubbish") and it is wrong surely the gaming industry can work out if games cost less more people would by real copies
saying that what annoys me more is people who can afford games but pirate anyway. now that i can afford games i buy them (probably because i feel i owe the gaming industry a big dept) and having the ability to game online and other such perks of real games makes it worth it. Pirateing just cause u can just really annoys me
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Sadly a reflection on society where people want everything and want it now, wether they can afford it or not.
I agree totally with you there. There is an anonyimity with piracy and the perception it is a victimless crime.
Also the "its not like stealing a real CD/DVD" brigade just compounds this.
I wonder if piracy has any part to play with EMI announcemen today?
Re-read the example
I left them the cash it would cost to 'replace' the item. So they DIDN'T lose anything. The money I left them was equivalent to what it would cost them to replace that item.
So they DIDN'T lose out
I can't believe you don't understand the point that's being made.
Again, re-read some of my previous posts. It is no justification. He has GAINED something for nothing. Irrespective of whether he ensures that the seller doesn't 'lose out'.
In the case of stealing software you don't have to 'pay' anything to ensure that the manufacturer doesn't 'lose out' when 'replacing' what you have gained.
In the case of stealing a tangible item (eg a TV) you only have to pay a SMALL percentage of its retail price to ensure that the manufacturer doesn't 'lose out' when 'replacing' what you have taken.
I walk into a TV store I take a TV that I can't afford (say £3000).
I can't afford it so I would never have bought it in the first place.
I leave a 'token payment' to ensure that the manufacturer doesn't 'lose out' (ie I leave enough for them to make a new TV to replace the one I took, I'm sure you'll agree that I won't need to leave £3000, because they can 'replace' it for far less than what they sell it for)
How is this ANY different to software theft?
The seller/manufacturer doesn't lose out financially (I gave them enough to replace what I took)
They didn't lose out on a sale, because I couldn't afford it anyway.
So like you say...
Just because in the case of software, you don't have to pay ANYTHING to 'replace' what you steal - doesn't mean it is any different.
Think about it
so your saying if u had a brilliant idea for an invention and you told your mate. and your mate went off and made said invention and made millions that wouldnt be stealing
its not a physical item but it belongs to some1 and some1 has lots out and some1 has gained something for nothing. and the gaining something for nothing is the whole point
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another couple of points I would like to add to the mass debate:
1. I buy steam games becaus4e I know they are good and the developer always do good work. Its different from other games companies who are hit n miss. So that is a point for making better games = less piracy.
2. Splinter Cell Chaos Theory. That game I really wanted to "try before I buy" but it was un-crackable until almost 6 months after its release. As someone who does sometimes download games before buying them I am very impressed that companies do purt some effort into copy protection these days, and that gamke was proof that technology is out there to stop pirates, at least for a while.
Subsequently I borught the game on hope (there never seam to be demos out before games arrive) and luckily it was a good game.
1. I buy steam games becaus4e I know they are good and the developer always do good work. Its different from other games companies who are hit n miss. So that is a point for making better games = less piracy.
2. Splinter Cell Chaos Theory. That game I really wanted to "try before I buy" but it was un-crackable until almost 6 months after its release. As someone who does sometimes download games before buying them I am very impressed that companies do purt some effort into copy protection these days, and that gamke was proof that technology is out there to stop pirates, at least for a while.
Subsequently I borught the game on hope (there never seam to be demos out before games arrive) and luckily it was a good game.
I can see what you're getting at, but I still don't agree.
If somebody comes to my house, with a fancy new game, and I slip it into my PC, rip it, and give it back, it is not the same as stealing a TV, and leaving the cost price behind.
In the case of the game, to the manufacturer, nothing has happened, especially if I'd never heard of the game before, or had no money, or wasn't going to buy it.
The TV shop/factory or whatever now has an item of stock missing. This now has to be refabricated, or the profit on that sale is lost somewhere.
In the case of piracy, in the case of an individual, nothing is lost.
Please, I'm not trying to argue for the sake of it, I agree that piracy IS wrong, but, I disagree that it's the same as physically removing an item from somebody else.
V1N.
I see.
I didn't think the point was gaining something for nothing.
I thought the point was more how it's harming the industry.
Again, if a single person pirates a game, which they were never going to buy, then exactly who has lost out?
If I had a brilliant idea (and I have them ALL the time!!!
) and I told a mate, and he went out and made it, that's not really exactly the same as an individual at home, copying a single game, which they were never going to buy, is it?If I copied a game, and then sold millions of copies of it, that would be closer to your analogy, but I'm not advocating the selling of Warez, as I find that dispicable. That is stealing, as these piracy rings who sell loads and loads, or even Joe Bloggs on his car boot sale, are stopping people buying genuine software, and making a profit themselves, off the back of software/games developers.
V1N.
Hasn't this happened many times before though? If you dont patent it or whatever and someone else does...
To you maybe, but I do not think that's the point when film studios, music labels and game publishers talk about it. They would have you believe that every pirated copy is a lost sale. Which is total crap. Sure there is some lost sales in their, but others have said, I'd be surprised if anything more than 25% of downloaders would have bout what they downloaded, had it not been possible to, weather they could afford it or not.
Again I'm not trying to make any justifications. I just think the facts are much twisted.
Only because stealing software is 'annonymous' and so people have a natural feeling that it's not as bad as physically taking something that belongs to someone else.
But it's only missing (out of stock) for a short time. If they could refabricate it immediately, would it make it any less wrong?
What sale? I couldn't afford to buy it, so would never have bought it remember
But its still theft. As shown above, just because you can 'acquire' something without the manufacturer 'losing out', and just because you can say 'I wouldn't have bought it anyway' - doesn't mean it isn't stealing.
Only because it is easy to believe the poor justifications that people use for stealing software
At the end of the day, they use pirate software because they want something for free and they know they can get it without getting caught. There is no other reason.
I 'tested' COD4, i now have a legit copy in my dvd rack behind me, i also 'tested' Doom 3, i thought it was rubbish so didn't buy it.
Neither of those games had demos as far as i know, both had online 'test' copies before they were out in the shops or even reviewed by anyone reputable.
I have a huge collection of legit games, just as i do DVDs, but i also sample the naughtier side of things before i buy to see if its worth my money. For example anyone who forked out their hard earned cash on terminator 3 must have been quite frustrated, i didn't.
Man of Honour
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I'm sorry but why would you then buy it if you then have a copy of it?? The fact that you then would go out and buy a copy doesn't make it right. Most games have demos so no excuses really.
In general, I've watched a few pirate DVDs in the past and not over impressed with it tbh. I've an expensive home system and I like to switch the lights off with the family and get the quality experience that I've paid for. It would be false economy to watch poor quality movies on an expensive home system.
As for games, to be honest, I can't be bothered with all that downloading and code cracking nonsense. Again, what's the point of paying for a decent PC system only to be playing a copy that some teenager has got his teeth into from his bedroom. Personally, I feel that the quality of some games is so high, why shouldn't I pay the developers and designers etc the royalties they deserve.
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Only because stealing software is 'annonymous' and so people have a natural feeling that it's not as bad as physically taking something that belongs to someone else.
But it's only missing (out of stock) for a short time. If they could refabricate it immediately, would it make it any less wrong?
What sale? I couldn't afford to buy it, so would never have bought it remember
But its still theft. As shown above, just because you can 'acquire' something without the manufacturer 'losing out', and just because you can say 'I wouldn't have bought it anyway' - doesn't mean it isn't stealing.
Only because it is easy to believe the poor justifications that people use for stealing software
I'm going to agree to disagree with you that copying a disk with a game/music/film is the same as removing a physical item from somebody else.
I will agree that people copying games, playing for free, is wrong, even if they 100% wouldn't have bought the game anyway, and therefore is a victimless crime.
I also restate my point that it's very possible that people who download software etc, ARE doing so to try it out, and WILL purchase it afterwards. I have done in the past, quite a few times, specifically with music in my case.
Not every "pirate" is stealing software because they want something for free, they pirate for a chance to try before they buy. Assuming they do buy, is that so bad? If they don't buy, and they delete it, is that so bad?
Another example, is I was chatting via email to a mate in Europe about a new CD I have. What's it like he asks? I sent him a handful of tracks. Yesterday he bought the CD.
Again, I'm not saying that copying and playing games for free is right, it isn't. I am trying to make the point that not everybody who copies games, does so without then buying the game, and very possibly, any sequels.
V1N.
You're tarring all the downloads with the same brush. In the past before we had super fast connections most movies were encoded to save download time. Now there are loads of entire DVD rips of movies so it's literally identical to the thing you buy in the shop.
Pirated DVD's vs pirated games? That's an unfair comparison, PC games don't suffer inferior visual/audio quality when using a pirated copy, the only difference is that in general you can't play multiplayer or patch it as frequently. They're not like pirated DVD's in any way besides the legalities obviously.