"War on Scientology"

Jihad said:
Jesus...the first Anonymous video now has over 1.2k million views in under a week.

Original video/announcement: http://youtube.com/watch?v=JCbKv9yiLiQ

http://search.petitions.pm.gov.uk/k...earch.lsim?ha=1157&sc=number10&qt=scientology

First 3 are being passed around for signing. :)
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interesting, surely that compiles a list of people that scientology can digg up dirt on?

Submitted by James Higgs – Deadline to sign up by: 21 May 2008 – Signatures: 5,287
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And lol at some of the names on the petition:

W Smith (STOP THIS EVIL & STUPID AMERICAN CULT)
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/me teabags scientology
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peter file
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:D
 
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semi-pro waster said:
I think that it is a religion, merely a statement of fact or perhaps opinion since it is still somewhat debateable what its status should be, I don't say I approve of some or all that is done in the name of Scientology.

What I am defending or trying to is the right of people to believe in whatever they want, again with the notable exception that I highlighted above, it mustn't directly harm another.
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You're trying to make out that scientology should be tolerated as we should tolerate Islam. Sure, there are some negative aspects of attributed to Islam but to suggest that scientology is in the same ball park of them is daft.

No-one is saying that people can't believe in Thetans, Xenu, spaceplanes or whatever, but the whole way that cult is set up and operates should not be tolerated in this country or anywhere else.
 
Clinkz said:
Surely if people are permitted to believe what ever they want to believe, we should abandon our mental health services as they contradict what you just said? Schizophrenics for instance very often believe without evidence that 'somebody is out to get them'.

There is a fine line between belief, and insanity.
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Are you missing the caveat or just ignoring it? If someone wants to believe that everyone is out to get them then 'providing they are not directly hurting another' I have no problems with them doing so.
 
scorza said:
You're trying to make out that scientology should be tolerated as we should tolerate Islam. Sure, there are some negative aspects of attributed to Islam but to suggest that scientology is in the same ball park of them is daft.
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Again I'll say it, if they aren't hurting anyone directly then yes, absolutely I believe that we should leave Scientologists alone. However if they are hurting people or even possibly at the stage of transforming thought to action then they should be stopped, forcefully if necessary.

None of the evidence shown so far proves they aren't a religion either which was my initial point, all it suggests is that there are certainly some unsavoury elements to it but that doesn't automatically make it all bad.

scorza said:
No-one is saying that people can't believe in Thetans, Xenu, spaceplanes or whatever, but the whole way that cult is set up and operates should not be tolerated in this country or anywhere else.
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Even if it is simply a pyramid scheme in structure then nothing in that precludes that it is or may be a religion. For what it is worth I do agree that the murders/extortion etc charges that have been laid at the door of Scientology need thoroughly investigated and if anyone is found responsible they need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law but it still doesn't mean that the religion itself is necessarily all bad - and even if you could prove that the religion is rotten to the core it wouldn't alter the fundamental point that it is a religion.
 
Mik3 said:
Indeed, they expect you to blow your self up killing as many people as possible... I would rather pay $380K TBH
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And we are waging a war on terror because of this, therefore we should still wage war against other lesser evils, that are still evil.
 
semi-pro waster said:
Again I'll say it, if they aren't hurting anyone directly then yes, absolutely I believe that we should leave Scientologists alone. However if they are hurting people or even possibly at the stage of transforming thought to action then they should be stopped, forcefully if necessary.

None of the evidence shown so far proves they aren't a religion either which was my initial point, all it suggests is that there are certainly some unsavoury elements to it but that doesn't automatically make it all bad.
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I don't care if it's a religion or not. What matters is their actions not what dictionary definition fits. There's plenty of evidence that they are engaged in practices that hurt their members, and that their extremely sophisticated legal team are highly effective at making sure they escape justice.

semi-pro waster said:
Even if it is simply a pyramid scheme in structure then nothing in that precludes that it is or may be a religion. For what it is worth I do agree that the murders/extortion etc charges that have been laid at the door of Scientology need thoroughly investigated and if anyone is found responsible they need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law but it still doesn't mean that the religion itself is necessarily all bad - and even if you could prove that the religion is rotten to the core it wouldn't alter the fundamental point that it is a religion.
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In this case I would disagree. As is frequently pointed out here, people do kill in the name of Islam, the Catholic church has been responsible for some horrific crimes. People who actually analyse this stuff though know that this is just people using that religion as a vehicle for their own purposes. With scientology, what they do is the religion - it is doing as LRH designed it to do.
 
scorza said:
I don't care if it's a religion or not. What matters is their actions not what dictionary definition fits. There's plenty of evidence that they are engaged in practices that hurt their members, and that their extremely sophisticated legal team are highly effective at making sure they escape justice.
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I don't disagree that where they are hurting people they require to be stopped but freedom of belief is a fundamental human right and that is my basic argument. You cannot simply extend it to those you agree with otherwise it is to all intents and purposes worthless. If someone wants to indulge in self-flagellation or giving money to their religion then while I might think it odd I'm not about to try and stop them, I'll do my best to defend their right to do so.

scorza said:
In this case I would disagree. As is frequently pointed out here, people do kill in the name of Islam, the Catholic church has been responsible for some horrific crimes. People who actually analyse this stuff though know that this is just people using that religion as a vehicle for their own purposes. With scientology, what they do is the religion - it is doing as LRH designed it to do.
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Perhaps you know more about it than I do, I've read quite a few of the links though and once past the sensationalism I haven't found anything much concrete about the religion. I do somewhat struggle to believe that anyone would set up a religion with the express purpose of hurting the members though, if it is a business proposition then it doesn't seem like a very good business model - alienating, injuring or killing the people paying you doesn't strike me as a good plan for a self-perpetuating system. However I will note that I'm trying to apply some form of logic here and as I've often enough argued myself faith does not require logic.
 
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