Accountants in here please!

[Guv]

Of course you're going to say that. You only have to look at the salaries offered to ACA qualified accountants over certified accountants to see what the industry thinks. Also just look at the requirements for doing the ACA and ACCA at the same firm and I think you'll find you need to be a fair bit better academically to be accepted onto the ACA.

I still don't agree with what you're saying. Every job I see accepts applications from ACA or ACCA qualified accountants (and often CIMA, depending on the job). They don't say ACA salary for this job is £40k but for ACCA we'll pay £35k, it's always the same. Maybe you could provide some examples?
The company I work for have trainees studying ACA or ACCA and pay the same.

Regarding the requirements to qualify, I can't see much difference. For both you need to pass all the exams, complete 3 years professional work experience and complete a training record.

So what is it you mean when you imply the requirements for ACA are tougher?

Personally I see very little difference between the 2 professional bodies.

 

[>:|sh4d0w|:<]

Start off in Audit/Assurance with one of the big four to get your qualification.

 

[csmager]

Regarding the requirements to qualify, I can't see much difference. For both you need to pass all the exams, complete 3 years professional work experience and complete a training record.

So what is it you mean when you imply the requirements for ACA are tougher?

I think the implication was academic requirements to start a training contract - e.g. A-Levels, which Degree Level etc.

 

[Guv]

I think the implication was academic requirements to start a training contract - e.g. A-Levels, which Degree Level etc.

Doesn't that depend on the firm you're working for and not the professional body?
If you have low grades that doesn't mean you can't qualify with ACA or ACCA it just means you might find it harder to find a company to offer you the training contract and might start on AAT.

 

[SaBBz]

I still don't agree with what you're saying. Every job I see accepts applications from ACA or ACCA qualified accountants (and often CIMA, depending on the job). They don't say ACA salary for this job is £40k but for ACCA we'll pay £35k, it's always the same. Maybe you could provide some examples?
The company I work for have trainees studying ACA or ACCA and pay the same.

Regarding the requirements to qualify, I can't see much difference. For both you need to pass all the exams, complete 3 years professional work experience and complete a training record.

So what is it you mean when you imply the requirements for ACA are tougher?

Personally I see very little difference between the 2 professional bodies.

The requirements to start the qualifications are very different.

A number of higher paid jobs specify 'preferably ACA' and many say ACA/ACCA/CIMA, but I've yet to find any that say 'preferably ACCA'.

A few of examples from Hays:
http://www.hays.com/JobSearch/JobDetails.aspx?Type=-1&SectorId=-1&CategoryId=525&Key=aca+-acca&Location=&Distance=-1&SalaryFrom=-1&SalaryTo=-1&Page=1&RecordId=258618&Dir=Next

http://www.hays.com/JobSearch/JobDetails.aspx?Type=-1&SectorId=-1&CategoryId=525&Key=aca+-acca&Location=&Distance=-1&SalaryFrom=-1&SalaryTo=-1&Page=3&RecordId=302781&Dir=Next

http://www.hays.com/JobSearch/JobDetails.aspx?Type=-1&SectorId=-1&CategoryId=525&Key=aca+-acca&Location=&Distance=-1&SalaryFrom=-1&SalaryTo=-1&Page=3&RecordId=302837&Dir=Next

 

[BaZ87]

Doesn't that depend on the firm you're working for and not the professional body?
If you have low grades that doesn't mean you can't qualify with ACA or ACCA it just means you might find it harder to find a company to offer you the training contract and might start on AAT.

Without a degree you'll have no choice but to start on AAT and even then you'll need very good A-Levels to get a place. To get a contract starting straight on ACA or ACCA you'll need a decent degree, without a 2.1 or better you've got next to no chance of finding a contract. Not sure if its likely that you'd find a placement starting at AAT after you've done a degree either.

Regarding the talk about ACA or ACCA and which's better etc. There's next to no difference in whats better or harder or what pays the most. The only reason that 'on average' an ACA qualified accountant gets more is because the ACCA is fairly new and most experienced (where the big money is earned)accountants around have the ACA qualification. All the big accountant firms let you decide what qualification you train in and a lot of firms are switching from ACA to ACCA.

 

[Guv]

Without a degree you'll have no choice but to start on AAT and even then you'll need very good A-Levels to get a place. To get a contract starting straight on ACA or ACCA you'll need a decent degree, without a 2.1 or better you've got next to no chance of finding a contract. Not sure if its likely that you'd find a placement starting at AAT after you've done a degree either.

Fair comments. I got a 2:2 degree and started on ACCA with 5 exemptions when I got my training contract.

Regarding the talk about ACA or ACCA and which's better etc. There's next to no difference in whats better or harder or what pays the most. The only reason that 'on average' an ACA qualified accountant gets more is because the ACCA is fairly new and most experienced (where the big money is earned)accountants around have the ACA qualification. All the big accountant firms let you decide what qualification you train in and a lot of firms are switching from ACA to ACCA.

Yep, I couldn't agree more.

 

[BaZ87]

Fair comments. I got a 2:2 degree and started on ACCA with 5 exemptions when I got my training contract.

Presumably you've got decent A-Levels too, unless you wrote one hell of a covering letter

Ive not seen many firms asking for less than a 2.1 and even they want 280+ UCAS points too.

 

[Guv]

Presumably you've got decent A-Levels too, unless you wrote one hell of a covering letter

Ive not seen many firms asking for less than a 2.1 and even they want 280+ UCAS points too.

Unfortunately my academic qualifications weren't great. GCSE's 7 A-C and I only got AS level maths and AVCE Business so not amazing.
I didn't start in a great position at the company but I worked hard while I was there for a couple of years and have now moved to a different company and feel I've done quite well so far.

 

[dowie]

no offense intended to the accountants/trainees who've already posted but you really want to think about this job before committing as, IMO, there are a lot of areas which are very boring.

On the plus side it is a stable job and like similar stable business professions actuaries, solicitors, tax consultants etc.. you can earn a very reasonable & quite steady salary.

I've never done any accountancy quals but have covered some 'accountancy' within the CFA syllabus amongst other stuff + know ans work with a few accountants and I'd personally have a few gripes with the professions.

There are of course options to go for mid office positions within hedge funds/banks and I've got a lot of respect for tax specialists who can be very creative but for the lot of them their job basically involves just following sets of rules. I'd personally want absolutely nothing to do with auditing but for a lot of ACAs at big 4 firms that is their main role.

FWIF CIMA is generally for people working in house and traditionally ACA>ACCA

 

[Kemik]

There's a lot of debate over which is better ACA, ACCA, ICAEW, ICAS, etc so I wouldn't bother deciding based on what one person says.

CIMA is for management accountants, whereas ACA/ACCA is aimed at financial accountants. Think of it as CIMA = internal, ACA/ACCA = external.

I'm fairly certain you need a degree for some qualifications so check that too.

As for your other question I've got a summer 2008 internship with KPMG in tax. After that I hope to work for them through my ICAS and CIOT then see what happens from there. Hopefully promotions

 

[Vix]

I'm currently 3 exams away from being AAT qualified and then I'll go on to CIMA. I worked for a year in an accountancy practice, and really disliked it so I gather Management Accounts are my way forward

There were people in my foundation AAT class who didn't even have GCSEs, it's a very easy first year but an accounting background does help. No degree required to go higher either.

I decided to do AAT as it gets you exemptions from the higher qualification but if I need to stop after the three years, I have a 'proper' qualification, rather than half of one. I think it looks better on your CV to say 'I am AAT qualified' rather than 'I started ACCA/CIMA and stopped after 4 exams' or something like that.

 

[Tenzen]

All are simliar. It is also possible to buy yourself into ACA after you do ACCA or CIMA. Our FD did that with her CIMA qual.

ACCA is much mroe technical orientated - so you are looking at Financial Standards/Reporting/Tax etc.

CIMA is management focused.

I am studying ACCA as it gives you more options. For example you cant sign off accounts or get practicing ciertificate as a CIMA grad. Basically if you think of going into Accounting as your own business get ACA or ACCA. If you just want to do management accounting(cooking the books ) go CIMA.

CIMA is the least respected at top business level. If you get CIMA buy yourself ACA, it goes much further (as ACCA)

AAT is relatively pointless as you can get that level in 3 months at ACCA (First three units) imo.

 

[Brum Man]

CIMA is the least respected at top business level. If you get CIMA buy yourself ACA, it goes much further (as ACCA)

I would say that is a completely wrong statement TBH. Also seeing as ACA have just copied CIMA in respect to their 'finals' layout in the sense that you no longer have to pass all 3 in one sitting for any one of them to count.

When you say you can't get practising as I take it you mean as an auditor? Not really a suprise seeing it's not aimed at making you an exteranl auditor.

 

[Vix]

I would say that is a completely wrong statement TBH.

A lot of his/her comments were wrong imo.

My CIMA qualified management accountant doesn't cook the books, in fact then I worked in practice, there was much more book-cooking.

I have never come across anyone who thinks they are better/ worse than anyone else because of their accounting qualification.

AAT isn't pointless, if I'd started doing ACCA I'd have been gutted by now as it really isn't the way I want to go. At least with AAT you can get a feel for the different aspects of accountancy and decide what direction you are best suited.

Its amazing the amount of people on here who have accountancy qualifications though. I thought I was the only one Can someone help me with my costing homework please

 

[Mad old tory]

Good luck! I'm currently in my first year at KPMG in FS Tax doing just that - ICAS & CTA. Going to be bloody hard work to get all these exams done!

Had my KPMG assessment centre today and heard back within an hour from the partner telling me I got the job

Not allowing myself to truly believe it until I get the email confirmation though lol

 

[Tenzen]

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I am only going from the business I work for and my colleagues. All seem to agree that CIMA is not as robust as ACCA. CIMA qualified cannot sign off accounts. Cooking the books comment was a joke - EVERY accountant worth his salt does it. 99% of accounting is justifying what you do, even more so in management accounting rules are bent ALL them time.... the remaining 1% is staying within the rules. Why only yesterday I was having a discussion on how best to classify an improvement made to the business...we both had different opinions and both were right as we could justify them well! Yet each option would lead to different outcomes...so we went witht he option that was most favorable...THAT is cooking...a little bit here, a little bit there and voila a fine set of accounts and joe bloggs is none the wiser!

If AAT is the way to go for you then fine, but why spend 3 years doing something when it can be done in 3 months a bit later...seems like a waste of time to me!

You can think my comments are wrong, but I have been in the buisness a while now can can see a vast difference between CIMA qualified and ACCA qualified accountants.

ACCA does everything CIMA does and more.

 

[BenjiSayers]

Whoah, not checked this for a day quite a few responses now ty.

I was thinking of doing/starting the AAT as at the minute I don't have any real accounts experience. I have done the odd bit here and there but I know it is not enough to use it as leverage to get me my first job while I train.

At the minute I'm not on a really amazing wage as it is so any drop by going back to square one and starting with this will not be too extreme for me to be able to cope.

Would any of you think then it could be a viable option to start the AAT, get my foot in the door with a placement and then consider which path I would like to go down and take it from there and finish the final parts of the AAT at a later date.

Thanks for the replies so far, I know I don't really know a great deal on the subject (hence this thread) but am prepared to be fully committed I just need to take the first few steps

 

[Tenzen]

Best route if you are starting out?

Get into an accounts department of a business.

Tehre you will have the op to learn the accounting systems used in business and talk with the accountants tehre.

Easiest role is to take a clerk role. Most likely AP. You will gain first hand experience of using an actual live accountng system and exposure to the month end processes/quarterlies/half year and year end.

Pretty much what I did and decided to do the exams. By the time I started reading the fisrst three books I already knew 90% of the content. This is why I say AAT is pointless, Real world experience is worth 10x more. Most clerk roles dont even need you to be AAT, they only want someone who can learn quick and spell their name.

Also forget the exams - they will come in time. Nothing beats experience. You will find the exams MUCH easier fi you have the work experience first, also you have to understand that in order to be amember you MUST have your pratical experienced signed off. And Afterall after 3 years you will be qualified by experience anyway (provided you got yourself decent experience

 

[Vix]

Best route if you are starting out?

Get into an accounts department of a business.

Tehre you will have the op to learn the accounting systems used in business and talk with the accountants tehre.

I agree with you there. I was a management accountant before I even started the AAT, and it's goven me a huge advantage over the people in my group who have never even seen a set of accounts.