Weekend Football *SPOILERS* 9-11 February

[BaZ87]

Not sure where this goes now the club threads have gone

Rafa has said today that Torres could be fit this weekend for the FA cup tie. Thats meaningless as i doubt he'd have played in that game but at least it looks as if he'll be ok for the Inter game on Tuesday which is a real boost.

 

[Weebull]

Well at least I saw one team come back from 2-0 down at home this weekend, maybe Man Utd should take notes from Hull.

Beating Blackburn tomorrow isn't going to be easy though, I don't think everyone should assume it's a given. Possibly no Senderos, Flamini, Rosicky or Diaby, so therefore a knackered Toure and possibly Walcott on the left, means we could get thrown completely out by their horrid, clogging ways. A draw could be a very possible result, although obviously I hope not.

Liverpool v Chelsea must be the biggest snorefest of a fixture ever known? Hate those two teams more than any other, I'd rather Arsenal won everything... at least they play entertaining football!

 

[el_dazza]

Liverpool game was possibly the worst I've ever had the displeasure of watching. 1 shot on target in the entire game.. honestly.

 

[Owenb]

What a great weekend of football in the week that the league talks about moving some games abroad! If it wasn't for the rugby i would have fell asleep along before i did!

 

[fozzy]

Well at least I saw one team come back from 2-0 down at home this weekend, maybe Man Utd should take notes from Hull.

Beating Blackburn tomorrow isn't going to be easy though, I don't think everyone should assume it's a given. Possibly no Senderos, Flamini, Rosicky or Diaby, so therefore a knackered Toure and possibly Walcott on the left, means we could get thrown completely out by their horrid, clogging ways. A draw could be a very possible result, although obviously I hope not.

You see a lot of our games then??

You'll also be pleased to know that we also have up to 5 of the first team out, that's 5 less to clog you with, shame really. I fully expect your roof top snipers to be inform tomorrow night though, so i wouldn't worry too much.

 

[CliffyG]

Really need to press the advantage tomorrow after today's good results. Although we are weakened Blackburn have been pretty dire recently so think the opportunity is definately there.

 

[Weebull]

You see a lot of our games then??

You'll also be pleased to know that we also have up to 5 of the first team out, that's 5 less to clog you with, shame really. I fully expect your roof top snipers to be inform tomorrow night though, so i wouldn't worry too much.

I've seen you elbow us, chop us down, niggle us behind the referee and generally play the wind-up act in enough games between us to know that when Mikel Arteta, statistically the most fouled player in the Premiership, said in Saturday's Guardian that your team gave him the hardest kicking out of anyone he's played against, there's certainly no smoke without fire.

 

[drunkenmaster]

No it can't be true, Wenger said it and as we know everyone jumps on wenger. Likewise i fully expect Hughes to have a go at his players, in exactly the same way Wenger when he see's an arsenal player make a bad tackle(happened once in 1984 i think ) he should be expected to publically berate his player on a national stage to make him feel like crap and cause difficult relations with the player.

can we get past this, "my manager said it so its true" and the "his manager denied it what an absolute lying **** " crap all football threads go through.

does anyone truly expect any manager to bad mouth his own players. Blackburn are certainly FAR less filthy than when souness was in charge, its undeniable, but they aren't the least physical side either. THeres enthusiastic and theres over the top, they can look the same, but often the difference is shown in long runs of games and how the team is viewed in general by the majority. Considering arsenal for years have been accused of being weak and bullied by the "physical" teams by EVERYONE. i found it funny when Hughes accused us of being dirty. Thankfully we are a much stronger side physically these days and stand up to bolton style footie much better.

Hell, Souness is a pratt, so is O'leary, either manager leaves a club and the very next game you can see the difference. Souness plays dirty physical footie, Hughes is certainly moving away from that and bringing in more quality but it doesn't completely dissappear overnight as the types of players souness brought in stay in squads for ages.


Again with calling Macherano pure class, other than the completely ridiculously obvious, and on replay 100% clear, and 100% seen by the ref.. penalty that he should have given the game away for, yeah he wasn't bad. there were lots of loose balls but then he wasn't the worst. but it was an incredibly boring crap game where everyone looked off their pace. Lampard wasn't anywhere near form, Cole and swp with their usual lack of final ball and anelka on his own. You can't call Macherano pure class because the other team played like balls.

Final point, what the hell, Ashley Cole has been pants for like 2 years, never hit the same form as pre injury at arsenal, even for england a few days ago he was pretty awful. but today, i thought he was very very good, wtf.

 

[BaZ87]

At last you use some capital letters

Mascherano is class though

 

[fozzy]

I've seen you elbow us, chop us down, niggle us behind the referee and generally play the wind-up act in enough games between us to know that when Mikel Arteta, statistically the most fouled player in the Premiership, said in Saturday's Guardian that your team gave him the hardest kicking out of anyone he's played against, there's certainly no smoke without fire.

Maybe not, but some of the stick we get is pathetic. Arteta is a prime example of the double standards, he failed to mention in his little piece, that he should have been sent off. What for? Well he had already chopped Pederson down and received a yellow card for it. He then decided that because Pederson (again) took the ball from him, he would grab him around the throat and throw him on the deck.

It's the same old pap spouted about us all the time, and for what? Because Hughes came in and did what he had to, he kept us in the Premier league by playing hard. People didn't like it, fair enough, but this stigma is still attached with us, when it shouldn't be.

Bolton kicked 7 bells of crap out of us at the breeze block, there is no mention of it in the media, but it happens. We have played you twice this season already, the card count is 8 yellows and 1 red card for each team. You give as good as you get.

 

[drunkenmaster]

its not like blackburn kick 7 shades of black/blue out of every team, but it is a tactic they fall back on against the top teams still quite frequently.

so far blackburn 5 red cards so far this year, arsenal 2, everton 3 and bolton NONE, hell i was shocked by that too but afaik diouf hasn't been playing much so thats half of their normal red cards not happening , aswell as allerdyce being gone

looking at yellows, everton have like 26(forgot exact amount but pretty low), arsenal a not great 36, and blackburn up at 43. they aren't doing great, they aren't awful. I don't expect them to play every game as beautiful passing, i understand limited money and so on and buying some more aggressive players. i understand its a tactic and fairly valid. you just have to likewise realise that its very very frustrating when Arsenal play bolton/sheffield and to a lesser extent blackburn and other teams, that we get fouled a lot as rythm and fluidity is the main part of our game and breaking it hurts us.

using the bud prem league stats to check numbers btw, chelsea have 49 yellows and 5 reds also, while bolton and birmingham have no red cards, which is fairly surprising but then again, lack of aggression and look where they are in the league.

 

[fozzybear]

I'vd not read the rest of the thread so forgive me if i repeat a few things. Firstly, City deserved their win. They defended superbly and created and took their chances. I really think we missed Rooney today. He is an even more crucial player than Ronaldo. He is our catalyst. Saying that, i think the occasion to us. I've rarely seen such an abject performance from us. A lot of the blame can go to Fergie for not signing a new striker. Our strike force is not enough to takd the league this season.

 

[fozzybear]

Also, thanks and well done to the City fans. You showed yourselves to be above any rivalry with the respect you showed. For me, your respect made our defeat that little bit easier to take.

 

[drunkenmaster]

I'vd not read the rest of the thread so forgive me if i repeat a few things. Firstly, City deserved their win. They defended superbly and created and took their chances. I really think we missed Rooney today. He is an even more crucial player than Ronaldo. He is our catalyst. Saying that, i think the occasion to us. I've rarely seen such an abject performance from us. A lot of the blame can go to Fergie for not signing a new striker. Our strike force is not enough to takd the league this season.

i have to say, while i think richards is good with craploads of potential he has made errors, most defenders do but today , that was a 5 star world class performance. dunne has since dumping the excess weight a few years ago been a new, and very very good, player. They definately deserved it, its very hard to see in those games though if City defended the crap out of Man U to the point they were bad, or if it was Man U playing badly themselves that helped City a lot. I think it was a mixture of both. Man U gave the ball away incredibly cheaply, and though Nani had a 10 min spell where he was ok in the second half, the first half and bits of the 2nd i couldn't tell he was on the pitch. Anderson was far below his average performances of this season, again giving the ball away cheaply and it seemed that Scholes was dropping very deep way to often, i think that left a hole in the midfield-box area that rooney would often fill. Nani just isn't good enough yet for big games, maybe not good enough for Man U in the future but he's young and has time. Giggs started very brightly after some not great performances this year, maybe playing him on the wing would have helped you dominate the midfield and build from there.

How Hamann left the field without yellow card i don't know though, his very first big tackle was bloody awful, easily a yellow, seen them given as red's a lot this year. Hamann and Macherano, both seem to get away with murder. both today should have had yellows, Hamann maybe a penalty offence against ronaldo was it? couldn't see on replay if he kicked ronnies foot into ball or ball and his foot, was close though, that was right after his two footed lunge aswell. Then Macherano, i hate Joe Cole but he brought him down right infront of the ref clear as day. I guess thats only partially lucky for Macherano, its partially that all ref's think Cole is a diver, because he does dive constantly year round. if he didn't complain about every little tackle and throw himself to the floor and bang his arms on the floor like a baby, maybe, just maybe referee's wouldn't ignore him when he does get fouled.

 

[Weebull]

Maybe not, but some of the stick we get is pathetic. Arteta is a prime example of the double standards, he failed to mention in his little piece, that he should have been sent off. What for? Well he had already chopped Pederson down and received a yellow card for it. He then decided that because Pederson (again) took the ball from him, he would grab him around the throat and throw him on the deck.

Funnily enough, he did mention that. He admits it was a stupid decision, made in the heat of the moment, after (surprise, surprise) getting fouled so much all game:

He recalls a conversation in the dressing room before Everton's 0-0 draw at Blackburn last week. "One of my team-mates warned me, 'Be careful because they are going to try to kick you out of the game. And he was right: they kicked me all game. It got on my nerves in the end and I grabbed [Morten Gamst] Pedersen by the throat. I shouldn't have done it - but after four or five bad ones I was starting to think, 'What's going on here?'"

Bolton kicked 7 bells of crap out of us at the breeze block, there is no mention of it in the media, but it happens. We have played you twice this season already, the card count is 8 yellows and 1 red card for each team. You give as good as you get.

Or perhaps, once you've antagonised us enough, our players get hotheaded enough to react, and commit stupid fouls. I mean, isn't that part of the game plan in the first place?

You might not play like that every game, apparently Bolton didn't either, but if that's what you're doing against us, I think I have every right to say you're probably going to try and chop us down tomorrow too.

 

[m0r94n]

its not like blackburn kick 7 shades of black/blue out of every team, but it is a tactic they fall back on against the top teams still quite frequently.

I'd disagree with that. Its a common excuse used by managers when they don't get the walkover they were expecting against us.

Look at the Chelsea game for example, around Christmas. We put in a solid attack minded performance and if it wasn't for the superior quality of the Chelsea players we might have taken something from the match.

so far blackburn 5 red cards so far this year

But how many deserved? Even neutral fans believe referees are exceedingly tough with us because we have this reputation. Its something we have to live with though

its very very frustrating when Arsenal play bolton/sheffield and to a lesser extent blackburn and other teams, that we get fouled a lot as rythm and fluidity is the main part of our game and breaking it hurts us

But thats part of football. Everyone complains about the contact but then football is a contact sport for gods sake. We aren't exactly going to let the bigger teams come to us and take a victory, there has to be some resistance. You mentioned the tight budget and that restricts the quality into which we can invest, instead we've got a team that people know wont be a walkover and certain managers *cough* Wenger *cough* don't like it.

I don't want to seem like i'm going on an all out attack here because you make a lot of very valid points but I can't help but feel that complaints about our physical approach to the game stem mainly from sour grapes.

 

[Andybtsn]

But thats part of football. Everyone complains about the contact but then football is a contact sport for gods sake.

It isn't really now though is it.

 

[nikebee]

We could have done with the TMO from the Wales/Scotland game when Tevez was given offside...

 

[chesterstu]

We aren't exactly going to let the bigger teams come to us and take a victory, there has to be some resistance. You mentioned the tight budget and that restricts the quality into which we can invest, instead we've got a team that people know wont be a walkover and certain managers *cough* Wenger *cough* don't like it.

Couldn't agree more. Wenger complained about Everton saying they didn't allow his team to play flowing football and we ground out boring results with physical presence. But that to me is just another tactic to counter Arsenal's type of play, it's like complaining we had this great game plan but the other team turned up and their players got in the way

 

[drunkenmaster]

Couldn't agree more. Wenger complained about Everton saying they didn't allow his team to play flowing football and we ground out boring results with physical presence. But that to me is just another tactic to counter Arsenal's type of play, it's like complaining we had this great game plan but the other team turned up and their players got in the way

yes but at the end of the day, i could support Chelsea when they won the title, or i could support whoever wins the title every year. winnings nice, but not everything, winning a title is nice but how long does it really effect your mood. losing the CL final was bloody awful, but after a week it was merely a dissappointing memory. AT the very end of the day since i started watching football i fell into supporting arsenal because it was the most enjoyable to watch.

I'd prefer to lose a game playing good football, than win a game playing the dullest game of all time. End of the day i want to enjoy the 90 min game. When a team does everything, including breaking the rules of the game by fouling on purpose to stop our style of football because they can't match our passing its frustrating and more than that, leads to boring games. Its entertainment, thats it. THe win against, i dunno, trying to think at the moment, say Fulham earlier this year, i was happy about the win THEN, i don't feel happy or sad about it now, i can remember it wasn't a great game, mostly because we played like crap admitedly. but this is my point i don't feel one way or the other about that game now, but i can't remember any fantastic football. I can think back to the 7-0 victory and not be happy about the result but remember a freaking awesome display of attacking football and thats what matters to me.

Frankly i'd rather shoot myself than support a team that plays like pool/chelsea did today if they played like that in general. Its just damn boring, i mean it was an atrocious game. Being a sport, and being effectively just entertainment its very irritating when a team goes out of its way to stop another team being entertaining. Especially if those teams CAN and DO play good football in other games, but rather than try just assume they would lose playing their best football, they on purpose play a different less entertaining way. but hey everyone has different opinions, thats fine. but i prefer to watch a blackburn say villa game, than a blackburn arsenal game, as it will most likely be a more enjoyable game.

Do 100metre's runners with no chance of winning purposely trip the rest in an attemp to win, or just do there best and make it the closest and best race it can be. If blackburn play their best football, it has beaten arsenal and man u and i assume pool and probo chelsea at some point. If its possible, why not try, it will make a better game for everyone involved. even in general this physical/defensive approach rarely works, you might get a couple of draws extra a year, playing for draws is boring, for everyone. Hell even wengers tried the 4-5-1 physical approach, by far and away our most boring games of the past 5 years and also, we've done consistantly worse playing defensively than offensively.

Edit:- another point would be, Man City, away, could have gone ultra defensive and fouled the crap outta man U (honestly, Hamann was no worse than usual at all ) but they attacked, a Lot, and they were very entertaining. even though man u were fairly poor, not on purpose, the game was great to watch because there was a lot of simply, great football, some very good attacking and some superb defending. had they gone away and defended and refused to attack it would have been a dull game.