Microsoft must pay $1.4bn to EU

Slinwagh said:
That isn't the case though is it.

Firefox has roughly 10% market share of the browser market and that is increasing.

Even though IE and WMP are bundled with Windows you do not have to use them there are free alternatives, Firefox being the prime example.

Opera are also jumping on the anti Microsoft bandwagon when it comes to web browsers what they seem to conveniently forget is that Mozilla / Firefox seems to be flourishing under the same market.
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Right, so Firefox, a superior product that is FREE only has a 10% market share and you don't see the problem?

Opera are a business and have a business model that relies on people paying for a license to use their products - rather than a bunch of enthusiasts like Mozilla. They can't get any market share because everyone uses IE, the development of which is subsidised by Windows licenses, and that's why they're a bit annoyed.
 
daz said:
hahano.gif
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I don't normally do this, but you can have that back. How many BSOD would you care to see today? Don't you get enough just with MS stuff, never mind third party apps hacking the kernel (that's partly why MS locked down the 64-bit kernel).

I'm sure countless Apple fans will remember the fun that happened with the Tiger to Leopard upgrade. Most of that was caused by something called 'App Enhancer' (APE) using undocumented APIs that Apple changed/removed.

Documenting every bit of the innards of the OS would stifle development of the OS and open it up to even more malware attacks. Even Linux has some limits on what you can do with the kernel.
 
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WotDa said:
Tell me why Microsoft felt the need to integrate IE into Windows so much then? To provide a better web browser?
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Ok... here's a scenario for you.

1) You go out buy your new PC and pick up a copy of Windows sans IE.

2) You get home fire up the new rig and install your copy of Windows sans IE.

3) Windows is installed, you setup your network/internet connection.

4) Now then lets go download Firefox as you don't want IE...

5) ...wait a minute... how am I going to get Firefox... my OS has no browser... and as such no means to get to the interwebbingtons to grab my beloved Firefox!!!

6) Curse MS for not shipping Windows with at least basic browser functionality.
 
Slinwagh said:
iTunes? Oh sorry Apple is cool, not a monopoly exploiting customers.
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I was under the impression that iTunes is currently under investigation by the EC? Remember that the ruling in the OP dates back to 2004 - the EC is a slow beast.
 
Berserker said:
I don't normally do this, but you can have that back. How many BSOD would you care to see today?
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Less than the 4 I saw yesterday.

Admittedly, they were the first 4 in several months mind you.

platypus said:
I'm not sure where you get your figures, as that's not this planet.
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Hi 5!

HeX said:
Ok... here's a scenario for you.
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Here's one for you.

Tell me why Microsoft felt the need to integrate IE into Windows so much then? To provide a better web browser?
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Read the words in bold again, multiple times. I was not talking about Windows without IE.
 
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HeX said:
Ok... here's a scenario for you.

1) You go out buy your new PC and pick up a copy of Windows sans IE.

2) You get home fire up the new rig and install your copy of Windows sans IE.

3) Windows is installed, you setup your network/internet connection.

4) Now then lets go download Firefox as you don't want IE...

5) ...wait a minute... how am I going to get Firefox... my OS has no browser... and as such no means to get to the interwebbingtons to grab my beloved Firefox!!!

6) Curse MS for not shipping Windows with at least basic browser functionality.
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Ah yes, but if that was the case you'd have to go and pay for a Firefox CD from PC World.

But oh wait, that involves driving and paying, so there goes 90% of Firefox's 10% marketshare.
 
JimpsEd said:
Ah yes, but if that was the case you'd have to go and pay for a Firefox CD from PC World.

But oh wait, that involves driving and paying, so there goes 90% of Firefox's 10% marketshare.
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Which is why having a browser built in helps the end user, no?

jas72 said:
Let's quibble over the 5%. Still good luck in marketing a product that will only attract 8% of it's potental user base.
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But it's not 8% is it? I'd hazard a gross generalising guess that around 90% of computer users are just too stupid to use a computer. Microsoft provide a service to the consumer by making it easy.
 
Berserker said:
I don't normally do this, but you can have that back. How many BSOD would you care to see today?

I'm sure countless Apple fans will remember the fun that happened with the Tiger to Leopard upgrade. Most of that was caused by something called 'App Enhancer' (APE) using undocumented APIs that Apple changed/removed.

Documenting every bit of the innards of the OS would stifle development of the OS and open it up to even more malware attacks. Even Linux has some limits on what you can do with the kernel.
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I agree, closed and open source alike has vulnerabilities and gets exploited all the time... I'm no open source ho-bag or anything like that. I'm also not advocating that MS remove IE or WM from Windows - just that 3rd party software should be able to be afforded the ability to work at the same level as those two pieces of software, for example.
 
I don't see why people would try to defend Microsoft in this action.

The were told to stop and didn't simple as that!
 
HeX said:
Ok... here's a scenario for you.

1) You go out buy your new PC and pick up a copy of Windows sans IE.

2) You get home fire up the new rig and install your copy of Windows sans IE.

3) Windows is installed, you setup your network/internet connection.

4) Now then lets go download Firefox as you don't want IE...

5) ...wait a minute... how am I going to get Firefox... my OS has no browser... and as such no means to get to the interwebbingtons to grab my beloved Firefox!!!

6) Curse MS for not shipping Windows with at least basic browser functionality.
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Whoever you bought the PC from would install a browser I imagine - like how I used to buy PCs with Lotus Notes pre-installed. The point is that they would have to think about what their customers actually wanted, rather than "oh IE is already installed they can use that"
 
WotDa said:
Read the words in bold again, multiple times. I was not talking about Windows without IE.
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I have, and it is exactly what I answered.

It is integrated into windows so that you have web functionality out of the box.

EDIT - Bah edited while quoting :p
 
jas72 said:
Let's quibble over the 5%. Still good luck in marketing a product that will only attract 8% of it's potential user base.
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The trick is not to market your product to 8% of people. But everyone.

Please show me the document I signed at birth stating I had to use Windows, and could never swap?

HeX said:
I have, and it is exactly what I answered.

It is integrated into windows so that you have web functionality out of the box.
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.... If Firefox, for example was out of the box installed on Windows, that would provide a web browser. I think you fail to under stand the meaning of integrate in this context slightly.
 
why dont all the mofos just leave MS alone. Not a day goesby without someone filing against them for stupid things. Seems like if you cant compete with them then just sue them.

What a load of tosh!
 
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