Excellent result by the CPS for once
- Thread starter Johnny Girth
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Like the farmer who rigged his barn door with a shotgun because he kept getting robbed
Are you possibly thinking of the Tony Martin case? If so the circumstances are significantly different.
Im confused, what about all the previous things that could be considered similar circumstances to this?
Like the farmer who rigged his barn door with a shotgun because he kept getting robbed
Tony Martin the farmer who shot a youth to death went to prison. He was the victim of several burglaries and took the law into his own hand.
The youth he killed was running away at the time Tony Martin shot him in the back. That was not self defence.
No, this was a slightly smaller case (less well known).
A farmer basically did a trap where he wrapped some wire around the trigger and pointed the rifle towards the door, as the door opened the trigger was pulled.
Providing a statement is not an informal chat.
If the procedure says he had to be arrested even if the police didn't think he'd committed a crime then he had to be arrested. Personally I think that procedure is nonsense though, and goes some way to account for why so many people are afraid to fight back against criminals in this country.
Wasn't that very recent in somewhere in Lancashire?
I honestly cant remember the details, I just remember seeing it on the TV a year or two ago.
All I remember is that it was in England, and I think it was within the past 5 years or so.
It doesn't matter what the Police "think" their job is to investigate. A formal taped interview in the presence of legal representation ensures that Mr Singh's rights were preserved.
Actually, according to my reading of the powers of arrest in PACE it does matter. People may be arrested if a police constable suspects that person of committing a crime.
If he was "helping police with their enquiries" (i.e. not arrested) would he have been denied a lawyer?
Hmmm....
But anyway, they will have arrested him until they could get further details on what happened...
And i doubt they'd have treated him like a criminal due to the fact that when they arrived he'd have probably been shaking uncontrollably, in tears and telling them that the guy tried to rob his shop and it was an accident.
That's not self-defence, that's a trap.
No wouldn't have been denied a lawyer but being arrested instantly protects you according to the rules set down in PACE.
Man of Honour
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Ah right, I'm not sure I've heard of that one. However setting traps isn't acceptable so he was off to a loser right from the start there, you can't argue self-defence if you have set a trap in cold-blood, it doesn't really matter what provocation you have suffered - because of the degree of premeditation you have taken the exculpatory defence of self-defence out of the equation. You might still be able to argue that the provocation of being burgled repeatedly leads to a diminishment of responsibilities due to a damaged mental state or similar but self-defence isn't an option.
A good officer doesn't go on what he "thinks might have happened", but rather on the evidence, otherwise you end up with the good old days where an officer knows someone who commits a particular crime, and thus goes after him ignoring evidence that doesn't support his preconceived theory of what happened (also known as fitting up a suspect).
The arrest is as has already been mentioned standard as it means the potential suspect has certain rights under the law, and that because he's been made fully aware of those rights anything said is usable for the case, regardless of it incriminates him, or works in his favour.
Someone who is "helping the police with their enquries" potentially has less rights than someone who is arrested (I don't think they have the automatic right to lawyer under the legal aid system for example).
Yup, the trap could have gone off when anyone opened the door, from a concerned neighbour to the emergency services because there has been a report of a fire/gas leak/injury.
Traps are a very big legal no no because they don't care who sets them off.
When you are arrested the custody Sergeant on the basis of the evidence of the arresting officer will authorise or not the detention of the person arrested.
The custody Sergeant then tells the person who has been arrested that he is entitled to a copy of PACE and then he is entitled to free legal representation at any time or he or she can arrange for their own lawyer.
That is the general crux of how it works.
The custody Sergeant then tells the person who has been arrested that he is entitled to a copy of PACE and then he is entitled to free legal representation at any time or he or she can arrange for their own lawyer.
That is the general crux of how it works.
So what evidence was there to suspect this guy of an arrestable offence?
Is that tongue in cheek there was a dead man on the floor.
Your argument is becoming very tenuous to say the least. You seem to be unhappy that a persons rights were protected, something that people bang on about on here all the time.
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the dead body, and knife wounds on him showing he had been in a fight with the dead man, and may well have just walked up tried to stab the dead guy, who fought back, cut him a few times in the struggle before he got his knife back and finished the dead guy off, then said, ooo well err yup he came at me with the knife self defence 