Rant at disabled people....well the government
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You, Sir, are full of what can only be described as bull poo
Its a recognised and treatable disorder. However it is often mis-understood because of the multiple levels of the disorder under the same name. Lots of experts want it re-named "Reading Disability" for 95% of cases, and then only call the top 5% Dyslexic.
My brother is in this top 5% and my Mother (who is a teacher) now specialises in diagnosing children with Dyslexia and grading their level of disability. She does this because she saw the level of anguish experienced by her intelligent son who was totally crippled educationally.
However, she also saw the benefit he got from accurate diagnosis and special teaching to supplement his normal education. He left school with 7GCSEs (including A's and B's) went onto finish college with an Advanced GNVQ, using the a shedload of hard work, methods taught to him at his Dyslexia unit and the help of my Mother.
Sorry, let me clarify, what I meant is that the diagnosis of dyslexia is largely a joke mainly by insufficiently trained teachers/doctors, I'm sure your mother knows much more about it than me and most others though. sure some people are dyslexic but a large number of so called dyslexics are getting handouts when there is little wrong with them.
Don
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No, again i have to disagree.
The problem is with how it is classified. There is a lot of work done with teachers and schools to ensure that people who might have difficulties are correctly diagnosed.
Not everyone gets handouts, do you have any idea how it is diagnosed, or are you simply basing your opinion on "things you have heard"?
Yer, its clearly on a par with all the supercars out there.
Don
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Double Post
Don
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Well, there are a battery of tests, but i believe that the example you are showing there is only a small part of the test for adults. Which is somewhat different to the tests applied to younger children.
I have the motability price list in front of me and the only BMW I can find are the 1 & 3 series plus X3.
There are a wide range of cars available to the scheme these days either on rental or finance, some with no deposit and others with a small deposit payable up front. Some of the more prestige cars require anything from £5,000 deposit upwards.
Quote from Angilion.
As I've already said further back in this topic if the badge is not in use it must be out of site even with the disabled person in the car. If the badge holder is not in the car then neither should the badge, being out of site in the glove compartment is not enough.
[Edit] If the car is supplied on the mobility scheme or if the disabled person is in receipt of DLA [Mobility component] and using there own car they are entitled to free road tax but if they take advantage of the free road tax then the car is only to be used by or for the disabled person and not by any other member of the family for other purposes.
EG: Your allowed 2 nominated drivers on the scheme. I have myself and my wife nominated as drivers and we pay extra insurance for my son to be on the insurance when he's home on leave. I can use the car for any purpose, my wife as a nominated driver and carer can use the car for any purpose that benefits the two of us but my son can only drive the car if I'm also in there with him or if he is collecting shopping or a prescription for me, he cannot use it for his pleasure.
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It is just a small sample.
7-16 sample test is here. I assume it isn't normal for parents to fill these things out?
Caporegime
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sorry but the OP is right if I read correctly.
she had both car, and computer, she needed neither, getting a new car and computer off the government for the simple reason of being classified disabled is a joke. Do you not think if we gave a few with much more severe troubles a lot more help, rather than giving people who don't really need help something they don't need so much?
I went to uni, i've had chronic knee pain since i was 15, its incredibly incredibly bad most of the time, in winter it can get so bad i don't leave the house for weeks at a time. Have i gone and signed up for the dole/benefits, no, why, because my family, not wealthy at all but FAR from poor. other people need benefits, i can live without for now. I've had, and left several jobs, left mostly in winter as i feel like cack not being in for weeks and getting disability pay, which i haven't asked for and haven't taken yet. A girl who has trouble walking long distances is not the same as someone who can't walk, or has crippling pain etc. My joint pain has moved on and i have for several years had bad hip, shoulders, elbow and wrists, more recently my back and ankles are painful a lot of the time. yet somehow i don't think getting some fairly small amounts of benefits are either worth constantly proving i'm in pain to people who decide if i should get money, or that i should get it over a guy who lost both arms, or legs, and needs professional help getting around/living.
I found it incredibly irritating that in halls the guy next to me was put in a disabled room, which meant a huge shower with seat in, and a much bigger room, and he wasnt' disabled at all it was simply spare. i had mentioned knee trouble but because i'm not a money grabbing **** i refuse to get classified as such, as to a degree i guess i also don't want to be discriminated against either. either way, i could have done with the seat in the shower, standing for even 5 minutes if avoided saves me pain. Being at a building closer to lectures may have helped etc, etc.
Loads of people at uni had dyslexia, which lets be honest, for a lot of people is trainable to get past, isn't crippling( i'm unsure if it can be so bad as to disable some people legitimately, everyone in 20 years i've met who has it basically gets 2 words mixed up every i dunno, 100, and concentration and logical thinking and a little practice made them all basically not notice it after a short amount of time). Yet they get extra money here, extra time there.
We've become a nation of finding anything we can be "classed" as to get yet another needless handout which takes away from those who really need it. A guy blinded who needs full time help which can't be afforded because a girl with a car and computer, gets hand outs to buy new car and computer that are newer but thats it, not better or more functional.
People take money because its offered by a overly PC government, rather than taking money thats actually needed.
she had both car, and computer, she needed neither, getting a new car and computer off the government for the simple reason of being classified disabled is a joke. Do you not think if we gave a few with much more severe troubles a lot more help, rather than giving people who don't really need help something they don't need so much?
I went to uni, i've had chronic knee pain since i was 15, its incredibly incredibly bad most of the time, in winter it can get so bad i don't leave the house for weeks at a time. Have i gone and signed up for the dole/benefits, no, why, because my family, not wealthy at all but FAR from poor. other people need benefits, i can live without for now. I've had, and left several jobs, left mostly in winter as i feel like cack not being in for weeks and getting disability pay, which i haven't asked for and haven't taken yet. A girl who has trouble walking long distances is not the same as someone who can't walk, or has crippling pain etc. My joint pain has moved on and i have for several years had bad hip, shoulders, elbow and wrists, more recently my back and ankles are painful a lot of the time. yet somehow i don't think getting some fairly small amounts of benefits are either worth constantly proving i'm in pain to people who decide if i should get money, or that i should get it over a guy who lost both arms, or legs, and needs professional help getting around/living.
I found it incredibly irritating that in halls the guy next to me was put in a disabled room, which meant a huge shower with seat in, and a much bigger room, and he wasnt' disabled at all it was simply spare. i had mentioned knee trouble but because i'm not a money grabbing **** i refuse to get classified as such, as to a degree i guess i also don't want to be discriminated against either. either way, i could have done with the seat in the shower, standing for even 5 minutes if avoided saves me pain. Being at a building closer to lectures may have helped etc, etc.
Loads of people at uni had dyslexia, which lets be honest, for a lot of people is trainable to get past, isn't crippling( i'm unsure if it can be so bad as to disable some people legitimately, everyone in 20 years i've met who has it basically gets 2 words mixed up every i dunno, 100, and concentration and logical thinking and a little practice made them all basically not notice it after a short amount of time). Yet they get extra money here, extra time there.
We've become a nation of finding anything we can be "classed" as to get yet another needless handout which takes away from those who really need it. A guy blinded who needs full time help which can't be afforded because a girl with a car and computer, gets hand outs to buy new car and computer that are newer but thats it, not better or more functional.
People take money because its offered by a overly PC government, rather than taking money thats actually needed.
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Why the hell shouldnt a disabled person drive a nicer car. They get a set amount in motability, and then any extra they have to make up themselves.
The child I look after has a Fiat Doblo van (hardly attractive or a supercar) he needs this car to fit all his equipment in, but I know an adult with the same disability as him, who drives a BMW, he has had it adapted so it hoists him into the car in his wheelchair, its an automatic, so he just puts it into drive, the steering wheel has been adapted so he can steer it with one hand, and he has an indicator cable that sits between his legs, and then he indicates using his knees.
This amount of adaptation cant always be done to every car as they need a certain size and weight of car for the bracket that hoists him in.
I know he would swap his car in a heartbeat to get out of that chair.
Why the hell shouldnt a disabled person drive a nicer car. They get a set amount in motability, and then any extra they have to make up themselves.
Ah, personal contributions, fair enough.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
The contributions are subsidised though.
The difference in price between a Corsa and a 325 D M Sport for a non disabled person is about £20k. The personal contribution to make under motability to get the 325d M Sport is many, many times less than this.
The difference in price between a Corsa and a 325 D M Sport for a non disabled person is about £20k. The personal contribution to make under motability to get the 325d M Sport is many, many times less than this.
The problem here is that for some people, it is not possible to lead a 'normal' life no matter how much money you are given.
^Take all this talk about cars for example. I could be given a £10m budget for a car, but it wouldn't give me the full benefit because my vision isn't good enough to drive. OK, so the money could also pay for a personal chauffeur, but I'd still never get to drive it myself.
There are of course better examples out there involving more serious disabilities. There's other people who for example who can't go to the toilet by themselves. What price do you put on pride and privacy?
Soldato
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Originally Posted by [TW]Fox
It actually does - the BMW 325d M Sport is on the Motability car list.
WTF! You mean if I was disabled I could get me a beamer just like that? This is wrong.. totally wrong. Motability should be about bogstandard transport for the disabled. No wonder some people fake it and then laugth at everyone esle who has to work hard.
Have you actually looked at how much you have to shell out in addition to the mobility allowance though?
Not to mention the car returns to motorbility who then sell it on at the end of the 3 year lease (and I believe often get good prices for them, as they are relatively low mileage with full service etc at the dealership).
You can get a bog standard Corsa, Astra, Zafira for no deposit quite often, but for anything a bit more valuable you have a hefty down payment (that you don't get back at the end of the lease).
It probably doesn't cost Motorbility any more if you opt for a BMW and make the down payment than if you go for a Corsa.
edit
from the price list
Family BMW 325d M Sport 4d MP 5 Diesel Manual £7699.00 T/A 47.90 155 3 yrs £ 830.28
So that is 156 weeks at £45 (DLA mobility) = £7020 + downpayment of £7699 = £14,790 for a 3 year lease.
Associate
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My girlfriend has 25% metal spine and she gets no benefits for it !
Yes.
To own a BMW on Motability requires an advance payment of £9099. This is equivilent to a monthly payment of of £252 inclusive of VAT.
To own the same BMW on a normal lease, the cheapest quote I could find for a 36 month lease was £514+VAT - so a total of £603 a month. This would be equivilent to an advance payment of..
£21708.
Bear in mind that is NOT a maintained lease so you would be required to pay for your own servicing and tyres, and of course insurance - all included under Motability. Remember a full set of tyres for an 18" Runflat fitted 3 Series M Sport is about £600 a go.
I support the concept of Motability and think that providing heavily disabled people with basic transport if they do not have the means to do so themselves is something we should be proud to be able to provide as a society. This means something like a Vauxhall Corsa, or perhaps a larger car like a Vauxhall Zafira for people in wheelchairs, there are numerous modifications available for these vehicles.
This should not extend to allowing them to drive around in a 3 litre (the 325d is a 3.0) 200+ bhp diesel M Sport 3 Series which is heavily subsidised by taxpayers. I just think it's not effective use of taxpayers money.
That same money could be used to help others.
I realise I will be flamed to death for this for the reasons highlighted in my previous post. Oh well.
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You don't own it though, it's a lease car, under one of the biggest fleet car contracts in the UK.
The car goes back at the end of the 3 years and from what i've heard tends to get sold for a good price for a car it's age.
This is before you take into account the fact that a lot of car manufacturers will supply cars to motorbility at significant upfront discounts (IIRC motorbility is if not the biggest fleet car company in the UK, one of the biggest and has a fair amount of clout when it comes to getting the cars).
Basically you're getting the car with insurance and maintenance on a lease for about £400 a month, i'm not sure how that lines up with say Acme Car leasing or for a company cars though, but it doesn't cost Motorbility any more than if it was a Corsa at the end of the day (that is the reason for the upfront payment).
I'm not sure if VAT is payable on motorbility leases either - as the car is for a registered disabled person (I know it's payable if you buy the car outright as a disabled person unless you get it modified).
The car goes back at the end of the 3 years and from what i've heard tends to get sold for a good price for a car it's age.
This is before you take into account the fact that a lot of car manufacturers will supply cars to motorbility at significant upfront discounts (IIRC motorbility is if not the biggest fleet car company in the UK, one of the biggest and has a fair amount of clout when it comes to getting the cars).
Basically you're getting the car with insurance and maintenance on a lease for about £400 a month, i'm not sure how that lines up with say Acme Car leasing or for a company cars though, but it doesn't cost Motorbility any more than if it was a Corsa at the end of the day (that is the reason for the upfront payment).
I'm not sure if VAT is payable on motorbility leases either - as the car is for a registered disabled person (I know it's payable if you buy the car outright as a disabled person unless you get it modified).
Which is why I provided, as an equivilent, the cost of leasing the car to a private non motability example as a comparison.
I've just demonstrated how it compares - at the figures you've provided, it's subsidised in some way and definately does cost Motability more than if you'd taken a Corsa. It is true that as a large vehicle fleet they are able to negotiate discounts but premium manufacturers limit fleet discounts for residual purposes, and even so, the leasing brokers arrange leasing through people like Interlease, themselves not exactly small fry.