Hang Brown for Treason!!

jidh007 said:
Seen a few 'Gordon Brown is an illegitimate prime minister' i.e. you didn't vote for him comments thrown around, well in this country you vote for a party not a leader. So, erm, that argument is irrelevent.
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him being PM is against the labour party's promise of tony blair doing a full third term, just like the blocking the referendum from happening. also he was a terrible COE, he lost us £4bn overnight by selling half of the UK's gold reserves!
 
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RDM said:
One of the reasons they are in power is because they agreed to a referendum in their manifesto. They have now gone back on that promise. That is what I feel to be politically damaging.

Yes we do vote for people to represent us, but in this case they didn't represent their constituants, they represented their party. If I am voting for a party rather than an individual then let's get a PR system so my vote actually makes a difference.
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Agreed.

Probably the only time I will, but... agreed, nevertheless.

:)
 
the problem is the whip system, means when voting on things, the MPs have to vote on behalf of their party's leader rather than for what they think/what the constituency they represent thinks.
 
RDM said:
One of the reasons they are in power is because they agreed to a referendum in their manifesto. They have now gone back on that promise. That is what I feel to be politically damaging.

Yes we do vote for people to represent us, but in this case they didn't represent their constituants, they represented their party. If I am voting for a party rather than an individual then let's get a PR system so my vote actually makes a difference.
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Sorry but if we let everything go to a referendum we'd never get anything done, it's a different contract they're signing up to, it's not the same thing. Similar yes, but if you actually believe manifestos then frankly you're a bit of a plonker. Every single political party breaks promises on a weekly basis.
 
mattyrigby00 said:
the problem is the whip system, means when voting on things, the MPs have to vote on behalf of their party's leader rather than for what they think/what the constituency they represent thinks.
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I hate that, personally I think they should be allowed to vote as they want, on the whole they'll agree with their party - which is why they're members but they should never be forced into it.
 
Evangelion said:
Agreed.

Probably the only time I will, but... agreed, nevertheless.

:)
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As well as being a dirty libertarian I also support electoral reform. Either ditch the party whip system or bring in PR.

Pretty much every study on the Lisbon Treaty has shown it to be the Constitution but with a different name, we were promised a referendum and two of the three major parties effectively betrayed their manifesto promises. The Lib Dems abstaining was especially spineless. What has been worse has been seeing the weasaling about as to why a referendum is not coming. In my eyes Gordon Brown is becoming more and more pathetic and less and less trustworthy.
 
Kami said:
Sorry but if we let everything go to a referendum we'd never get anything done, it's a different contract they're signing up to, it's not the same thing. Similar yes, but if you actually believe manifestos then frankly you're a bit of a plonker. Every single political party breaks promises on a weekly basis.
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I do not believe in government by referendum, I do believe that the government should be as honest as possible (note should be, I am well aware that the reality is far from it). The Lisbon Treaty and the Constitution are almost identical, pretty much every study has shown that to be the case (both pro Euro and anti Euro) the weaseling out of such an important manifesto promise is disgusting.

The problem with politics is that we expect parties to break promises and are not suprised, nor take them to account, when they do. This is what really needs to change.
 
Kami said:
I hate that, personally I think they should be allowed to vote as they want, on the whole they'll agree with their party - which is why they're members but they should never be forced into it.
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in a perfect world there would be no political parties (we would elect our PM separately). (all MPs would be independent from each other, so they would truly represent their constituency rather than their party's leader)
 
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RDM said:
I do not believe in government by referendum, I do believe that the government should be as honest as possible (note should be, I am well aware that the reality is far from it). The Lisbon Treaty and the Constitution are almost identical, pretty much every study has shown that to be the case (both pro Euro and anti Euro) the weaseling out of such an important manifesto promise is disgusting.

The problem with politics is that we expect parties to break promises and are not suprised, nor take them to account, when they do. This is what really needs to change.
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i think there should be a referendum to see if we want to be in the EU or not, simply because its not what was voted for 30 years ago, the referendum 30 years ago was for a free trade thing, the EU is now like an unelected 2nd government.
 
RDM said:
I do not believe in government by referendum, I do believe that the government should be as honest as possible (note should be, I am well aware that the reality is far from it). The Lisbon Treaty and the Constitution are almost identical, pretty much every study has shown that to be the case (both pro Euro and anti Euro) the weaseling out of such an important manifesto promise is disgusting.

The problem with politics is that we expect parties to break promises and are not suprised, nor take them to account, when they do. This is what really needs to change.
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How exactly do you bring them to account?
 
As bad as Labour are, I'll leave the country should anyone else get in power

Labour may be bad, the others are just a joke
 
scorza said:
Who signed up to Maastricht?
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Political union is different to succseeding to an almost new Super State with us having no opt out or option, or those likely to give. Give it another 10 years and the president of Europe (TB) will no doubt have armed forces at his will.

I feel that what the Tory's signed up for were just, we can't stay out of Europe. However, we don't want to be assimilated either.

Anyhow, I am not sticking up for the actions of parties I do not support. We need the chance to decide, not those muppets in elected power. I have never had the chance to oppose or support Europe in my life. Those who have before me, voted for trade routes.
 
RDM said:
As well as being a dirty libertarian I also support electoral reform. Either ditch the party whip system or bring in PR.
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Australia has proportional representation. It's definitely the way to go. :)

I was surprised to find that you guys don't have it over here. :confused:
 
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