My car so far

[Bleek]

Wow, great reply. Thanks mate

The bushes don't seem to be too badly priced, just trying to work out if I can fit them myself (novice level really). I've had stage 1 tuning and a few other bits done to it and I think it's time I improved the handling as it's only "good" as standard. Rear arb, some new bushes etc...

Will look into the things you have suggested. Also could be fun to try different tyre pressures

The judder feels horrid! Oh... and I think a 100cel decat + cat back will be ordered after. Performance cars suck.

Wheel hop is also really no fun for your car, it can in the worst case scenario result in chassis fatigue and weld fracture!

Fitting bushes is a nightmare, but you can do it at home especially if you have a) plenty of patience b) plenty of time and c) a blow torch!

The end result with poly bushes is brilliant, but remember you should replace all major with poly at the very least, really you should replace all bushes together.

 

[Berger]

Well I'll admit to thinking that before I truly looked in to the actual makeup of the Accord Type R NOT the Accord.

It wasn't just a badge engineering exercise, the Civic Type R (EP3) is a badge exercise in the MOST definitive sense.

I'll do a quick list of what Honda did to the Accord Type R to make it perform better than stock;

LSD
Lighter fly
Lighter front glass (ala DC2)
Lighter carpet (als DC2)
Lighter rear bench
Removed front and some rear sound deadening
Numerous engine enhancements (hand built and ported in Japan)
No sunroof
NSX front calipers with 300mm discs
Wider track
Numerous geometry enchantments and adjustments through bush and control arm changes.
etc

And the MOST important part, they braced the chassis in 12 places increasing stiffness by 40%. Lots of hidden work under the skin doesn't equate to a badge engineering exercise.

They didn't just throw 'Type R' badges at the car, they engineered it, just as they did the DC2 and EK9.

The Civic Type R however is a base Civic with go faster bits throw on, hence I dislike them out of (engineering) principle.

I'm not suggesting the Accord R is a super car, it's an accomplished sports saloon but there's more than meets they eye under the skin.

40% stiffer is good.

But it depends how much it would bend in the first place and under what force/load.

Not much use if your never going to reach that threshold where a standard car would be flexxing and the additional bracing is needed.....

Have to say im a little skeptical about the 0-60 time posted, without two G-Meter runs (one in either direction) ill reserve judgement.

 

[Ben M]

This is a GENUINE question and I am now not picking - why does my car not have a big wing? It's performance is largely similar. Why does an Audi RS4 not have a big wing?

Had BMW done an OEM wing it'd have looked well cool

My guess would be that BMW built in other features into the aerodynamics of the car, so that it had enough downforce without a large wing.

 

[L0rdMike]

This is a GENUINE question and I am now not picking - why does my car not have a big wing? It's performance is largely similar. Why does an Audi RS4 not have a big wing?

Had BMW done an OEM wing it'd have looked well cool

A wing prob provides little to no down force and is all for show.

 

[Skywalker]

Haha, I bet you use to run to the teacher and shout, MISS MISS this boy said a naughty word.

Not at all I would go and say someone just said ******

My boy will go into school and say i say the word ****** on the computer and I have enough problems with him as a 4 year old with ADHD and OCD as it is

 

[[TW]Fox]

My boy will go into school and say i say the word ****** on the computer and I have enough problems with him as a 4 year old with ADHD and OCD as it is

Is there any reason why your boy reads a forum for adults who own cars?

 

[Lopéz]

Can OCD even be diagnosed properly at 4 years old?

 

[Gaijin]

Erm..

a) The E39 M5 does NOT weigh 2500kg. It weighs 1800kg with driver and a tank of fuel - 1650-1700kg without.
b) The E39 530i has a higher top speed than the Accord Type R (Electronically limited to 155 versus Honda's claim of 141mph). Even if we are generous to the Type R and accept the fact its top speed is some 10% over the claimed speed, that means the Type-R has the SAME top speed as the 530. The 530i weighs 1605kg with driver, passenger and a tank of fuel - sub 1500kg without. This is not far off the Accord. It has NO rear wing.

The Accord Type R's ironing board is simply a styling addition. It has no practical purpose at all.

Jesus Christ. You actually thought I was being serious about the weight.

Do us all a favour and go down the pub for an evening Fox. You are wound up so tight you'll get haemorrhoids from staring at the blue screen.

The fact remains that the average owner of a 530 will simply not as likely be hooning around at the top speed as much as the average ATR owner.

The 530 is a luxury sports saloon. The ATR is a stripped out aggro wagon. Uncle Alf won't want one.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Do us all a favour and go down the pub for an evening Fox.

Ironically you'll notice I didnt post in this thread between 7ish and 10ish as I was actually.... at the pub

You are wound up so tight you'll get haemorrhoids from staring at the blue screen.

I'm genuinelly not, I'm chilled out in front of the PC listening to music whilst arguing about cars. Unless the heating fails, being more chilled would be challenging

You like cars. I like cars. We can both argue about cars for the enjoyment of arguing cars not becuase either of us is wound up

The fact remains that the average owner of a 530 will simply not as likely be hooning around at the top speed as much as the average ATR owner.

I don't feel this is relevant - the average 530 owner in Germany will spend most of their time on destricted Autobahns where its quite likely they WILL see top speed. This is what the car was designed for. I'm not sure what you are trying to say - are you saying that actually, the car is unstable at it's maximum speed (Which it is limited to) becuase BMW felt there was no point fitting a wing to stablise it becuase 'nobody will drive it this fast'?

Do you HONESTLY think that?

As an aside, was the Type R sold in the EU, where its legal and commonplace to travel at high 3 figure speeds, or just in the UK, where such speeds will land you in jail?

Besides, if you won't accept that I'll just cite either the Audi RS4 or the BMW M5. Both considerably faster than the Accord. Both without enormous wings to provide downforce.

ATR wing is largely cosmetic. It's that simple. Whilst it probably does provide some downforce at speed, I'd argue it provides no more downforce than the far more subtle wings/spoilers on similar cars.

 

[Mattius]

Im sorry to wade in here, its obviously your pride and joy.

but those harnesses will injure you more than a seatbelt. To have the harness mounted properly it would have to be in the middle of the rear seat rendering them useless, as the rear seatbelt bolts are to one side or the other depending on which belt your talking about, it will twist your spine on impact. Also if you roll it your head will get crushed as with a seatbelt you can duck!

Harnesses done right are excellent, done stupidly are a death trap. I know i was slightly stupid and had mine loose when i crashed and tore my elbow to bits on impact.

 

[Gaijin]

Ironically you'll notice I didnt post in this thread between 7ish and 10ish as I was actually.... at the pub

Good for you, so was I - gaying it up in Brighton. Hopefully your posting style will improve from here on in then

I'm genuinelly not, I'm chilled out in front of the PC listening to music whilst arguing about cars. Unless the heating fails, being more chilled would be challenging

You like cars. I like cars. We can both argue about cars for the enjoyment of arguing cars not becuase either of us is wound up

Excellent, and agreed. Much more pleasant banter. Sounds promising...

I'm not sure what you are trying to say - are you saying that actually, the car is unstable at it's maximum speed (Which it is limited to) becuase BMW felt there was no point fitting a wing to stablise it becuase 'nobody will drive it this fast'?

Uh oh, Fox of Auld.

No i'm not saying that, because if I was, I would have said it.

The Uberbahn is largely, long, straight and sweeping - just like any motorway. The 5 series is not a light car. This assists traction believe it or not. It merely needs a rear that wont interfere with handling at speed (E.g. not ala MK1 TT's). Adding a wing would be of benefit. However Uncle Alf probably wouldn't buy it then. Monies, all about monies.

Do you HONESTLY think that?

No, because if I did, I would have said it.

Besides, if you won't accept that I'll just cite either the Audi RS4 or the BMW M5. Both considerably faster than the Accord. Both without enormous wings to provide downforce.

ATR wing is largely cosmetic. It's that simple. Whilst it probably does provide some downforce at speed, I'd argue it provides no more downforce than the far more subtle wings/spoilers on similar cars.

I've never said that the ATR wing does anything. In fact, I'm pretty sure mine does jack all. I've only questioned that you mentioning that your car has a higher top speed as if it is more deserving of a spoiler.

You made an assumption in post 79. I asked you in my next post why your car requires more downforce when its weight more than makes up for it - in fact looking at this thread i've barely said anything about the effectiveness of the ATR wing until this post.

You just seem to have got hugely over excited about assumptions you have made from reading my posts. In effect you are arguing with yourself.

Its bedtime now, but this has been amusing. Sweet dreams matey.

 

[Fr0dders]

Can OCD even be diagnosed properly at 4 years old?

yes

its amazing the behavious traits they exhibit. You can give them a toy, say a farmyard with a picture on the box. They will copy the picture on the box to the mm. Everything will be in exactly the same angle and position as on the box

Another classic trait is to line toys up in a perfect line. If you as a parent move the toy out of the line, it will visible frustrate them and they will put it back.

Its these sorts of behaviour that leads to the diagnosis. My son has been diagnosed with DAMP - Deficits in Attention, Motor control and Perception. Its a generic term for the crossover in mental disabilities - ADHD, OCD, dyslexia, dyspraxia and Autism

Fundamentally our understanding of the brain isnt capable of explaining these behavioural variations beyond normal patterns. But if you read up on the subject, its something that there are lot of studies into, and scientists are desperately trying to understand what physical change in the brain brings these disabilities about.


Speaking as a parent of a child with learning disabilites skywalker, if your child has been diagnosed with learning difficulties with OCD / ADHD. How the hell is he able to go repeating swear words when the full word isnt visible ? unless he's heard the word before he wont be able to know what the remaining letters are, and repeat it. And thats before we get onto the fact that your 4 year old must be a pretty amazing reader to be sounding out those sorts of words. I think its despicable your using your childs learning disabilites to hide behind you being a suck up.

 

[cheets64]

I find it funny how people need to defend a car that does an outrages speed on public roads, its not big and its not clever, I don't mind reading about track cars, but when people start going on about how fast there car can do on a public road you lose all respect from me.

Save it for the track day, lads.

I must admit I have never seen eye to eye Fox but he gives great advice at the end of the day and I have learnt so much from this place alone from HONEST people that tell it straight not ******** who are abouts as convincing as jade goody being given the answers to who wants to be a millionaire.

Plus with wings, am I the only one who thinks one is needed turning at high speeds, why would you need a wing to give you control at 150 mph, a car designed to do 100 and putting a wing on it will do nothing, a car designed to do 150 and putting a wing on it will do nothing, unless you want to start turning at high speeds and even then the body will need work to compensate from the extra down force.

 

[Gaijin]

Speaking as a parent of a child with learning disabilites skywalker, if your child has been diagnosed with learning difficulties with OCD / ADHD. How the hell is he able to go repeating swear words when the full word isnt visible ? unless he's heard the word before he wont be able to know what the remaining letters are, and repeat it. And thats before we get onto the fact that your 4 year old must be a pretty amazing reader to be sounding out those sorts of words. I think its despicable your using your childs learning disabilites to hide behind you being a suck up.

Brandon doesn't have learning disabilities. Skywalker has never said that in this thread. He has ADHD and OCD. From what I read of it, this may make learning more difficult, but certainly won't prevent it.

Brandon can talk absolutely fine, is perfectly intelligent and as far as I last knew, went to school with other kids.

The simple fact of the matter is that I know Skywalker personally. Skywalker has several computers, left on during the day and Brandon uses them. Its perfectly possible for him to read the forums and thus any swearwords in particularly an active thread Skywalker is posting on.

Yes, I know him personally and I'm not scared of calling him a tool if need be. I'm not the type of bloke to blindly back up someone for no other reason than I know him.

The fact of the matter is that Skywalker and his wife have been through more difficulties with Beth and Brandon over the last couple of years than I'd care to go through in a life time. Its well documented on these forums and as such i'm not going to elaborate - you can look for yourself. As such I can completely understand him being short with people.

Furthermore, I have tremendous respect for him and his wife, they are strong people and loving parents. They have been through so much and for you to insinuate what you have in your last sentence, I think it is disgusting. As you have said, you know what it is like to be in such a situation and as such, you should at least give him the benefit of the doubt or ask him to explain himself.

Personally I would retract that statement, because only someone who knows him, his family, and his situation could have the right to say such a thing. And you don't.

I do, and i'm systematically telling you that you are wrong.






This has left a bitter taste in my mouth now and i'm not going to post in this thread unless necessary out of principle. Fox if you wish to continue to discuss our debacle, i'm frequently on msn.

 

[MrSix]

I remember a time when kids didn't have "isms" and they were just naughty kids...why is it that there's so many with said "isms" nowdays?

 

[Lopéz]

yes

Interesting, I had no idea. I would have thought such traits would only properly develop with maturity. After all, our thought patterns change over the years so is it possible a child with OCD may no longer have OCD as an adult?

Anyway, straying off topic here but thanks for the info.

 

[Bleek]

A wing prob provides little to no down force and is all for show.

I don't want to get in to an argument that engineering and physics have proven but that's a pretty big dumbfounded generalisation.

I would agree to some degree on a road car at road speeds, yes a wing is OTT.

That however would assume everyone kept to the speed limits.

 

[Skywalker]

Speaking as a parent of a child with learning disabilites skywalker, if your child has been diagnosed with learning difficulties with OCD / ADHD. How the hell is he able to go repeating swear words when the full word isnt visible ? unless he's heard the word before he wont be able to know what the remaining letters are, and repeat it. And thats before we get onto the fact that your 4 year old must be a pretty amazing reader to be sounding out those sorts of words. I think its despicable your using your childs learning disabilites to hide behind you being a suck up.

The full word was visable hence I asked it to be stared out , it wasnt half stared , How dare you have the ordascity when you dont know me you absolute spanner you dont know me or my child so stop that now as I an losing my cool here . I say ability rather than the misinformed disability you so stupidly stated as yes he is only 4 years old and the amount of visits to the specialist we have had over the last 2 years has come to the following conclusion , He will do exactly what you discribed in the top half of the uncopied quote with additional things , If I move a car out of line for example it will have to be put back in line , Then the ADHD will kick in after . He has had many other tests on him which are more relivent to your post aswell where he has the mental age of a 9 year old and the vocab of an 11 year old so I think that pretty much answers your question

Brandon doesn't have learning disabilities. Skywalker has never said that in this thread. He has ADHD and OCD. From what I read of it, this may make learning more difficult, but certainly won't prevent it.

Brandon can talk absolutely fine, is perfectly intelligent and as far as I last knew, went to school with other kids.

The simple fact of the matter is that I know Skywalker personally. Skywalker has several computers, left on during the day and Brandon uses them. Its perfectly possible for him to read the forums and thus any swearwords in particularly an active thread Skywalker is posting on.

Yes, I know him personally and I'm not scared of calling him a tool if need be. I'm not the type of bloke to blindly back up someone for no other reason than I know him.

The fact of the matter is that Skywalker and his wife have been through more difficulties with Beth and Brandon over the last couple of years than I'd care to go through in a life time. Its well documented on these forums and as such i'm not going to elaborate - you can look for yourself. As such I can completely understand him being short with people.

Furthermore, I have tremendous respect for him and his wife, they are strong people and loving parents. They have been through so much and for you to insinuate what you have in your last sentence, I think it is disgusting. As you have said, you know what it is like to be in such a situation and as such, you should at least give him the benefit of the doubt or ask him to explain himself.

Personally I would retract that statement, because only someone who knows him, his family, and his situation could have the right to say such a thing. And you don't.

I do, and i'm systematically telling you that you are wrong.






This has left a bitter taste in my mouth now and i'm not going to post in this thread unless necessary out of principle. Fox if you wish to continue to discuss our debacle, i'm frequently on msn.

Call me a tool I will set Brandon on you or let Beth lick you to death and your not having the cat now either


Now lets talk about my crappy car with the spoiler that was there when it came from the factory which WAS an option to remove it at time of purchase new which I bought this one second hand and as they no longer make them its tough ****, The harness which I put in for the ocasional track day that I had no Idea was more dangerous that good (from what I can make out).

The wheels are a pain in the rear to keep clean hence I have changed to better pads with 50% more brake dust so rather than the 90% of the time fox says they will look bad when there dirty that makes it 45% .

The Exhaust was only avaliable with the ends you see which are as stated to have a 2 inch exit with the ends weilded onto the back box but many havent listened - With 4 inch slash cut ends or I could have gone for the 3 inch rolled of which I am not a fan and both came with duel exit as thats what the OEM system is anyway so couldnt get it with single so there you go , the reason I went for the mongoose was that I got the whole system at a very good price and is the only dyno proven exhaust out for the car as there very rare and not many people make anything for the car

The coilover I pretty much explained but penski didnt say why he wanted to know why I didnt have matched springs and shocks but I think I pretty much explained there specific for the car not the accord range .

 

[penski]

The wing on an ATR does NOT provide downforce. Fact.

What it may do is reduce lift.

As for whomever said "You can tell that it works because it flexes at high speeds", if I mount some cellophane on a coathanger it will flex at 70+mph.

*n

 

[DannyDan]

IMO the Type-R spoiler looks great, even if it's only purpose is cosemetic. It'd look like a normal Accord without it.