Goth Clothes Prompted Killing

TheDean · 13 Mar 2008 at 16:07

Gilly said:
...and spend 30 years tied up licking your own snot instead of 15 years in the big house

Just because you plead diminished responsibility doesn't mean you're off to a mental institute. The difference between that and insanity is the temporary nature...You'd probably just face lots of counselling and the like

Gilly · 13 Mar 2008 at 16:07

That's why I said you have to be careful with it...

Besides which, if he went after them now and tried to then plead diminished responsibility I doubt it'd stand up in court.

TheDean · 13 Mar 2008 at 16:09

penski said:
The death penalty is both a more lenient sentance on the criminal and a harsher sentance on the rest of society.

*n

Most sensible thing I've read in a while

EDIT.....on these forums

TheDean · 13 Mar 2008 at 16:14

Gilly said:
Besides which, if he went after them now and tried to then plead diminished responsibility I doubt it'd stand up in court.

I very much doubt he could due to his head injuries, but you're right. It's all to do with reasonable timescales i.e. fit of rage after the death.

MookJong · 13 Mar 2008 at 16:18

Revenge is a primal and animalistic instinct, I'm surprised so many people on this forum support it because it kind of defies logic.

Personally I may want revenge in a situation like this, but to be honest I think revenge shows you are destroyed internally and reduced to emotions of fear and primal hatred. These become shackles which you will carry for as long as you feel resentment, it would be very difficult to move on and forgive but I think your life would also be destroyed if you didn't.

There is a reason these people attacked and killed the girl and that reason is not based on some mythical idea like evil. It is simply how you as a human interpret and react to these events.

Tefal · 13 Mar 2008 at 16:29

MookJong said:
Revenge is a primal and animalistic instinct, I'm surprised so many people on this forum support it because it kind of defies logic.

Prevents re offending though.

penski · 13 Mar 2008 at 16:33

Tefal said:
Prevents re offending though.

So does life imprisonment.

*n

MookJong · 13 Mar 2008 at 16:33

Tefal said:
Prevents re offending though.

This is true.

MookJong · 13 Mar 2008 at 16:34

penski said:
So does life imprisonment.

*n

I thought that and then relised there are plenty offences you can cause in prison. Just depends if your bothered about them offending in there.

aardvark · 13 Mar 2008 at 16:35

MookJong said:
Revenge is a primal and animalistic instinct, I'm surprised so many people on this forum support it because it kind of defies logic.

i disagree.
Revenge, like the death penalty, is the most logical step to protect society from a threat. A person commits the ultimate crime ,then to protect the rest of the people in that society the criminal must be removed from society - atonement for the crime is not possible as the victim is dead. Its perfectly logical from a moral and evolutionary standpoint.

MookJong · 13 Mar 2008 at 16:43

aardvark said:
i disagree.
Revenge, like the death penalty, is the most logical step to protect society from a threat. A person commits the ultimate crime ,then to protect the rest of the people in that society the criminal must be removed from society - atonement for the crime is not possible as the victim is dead. Its perfectly logical from a moral and evolutionary standpoint.

Your confusing capital punishment with revenge

penski · 13 Mar 2008 at 16:44

aardvark said:
i disagree.
Revenge, like the death penalty, is the most logical step to protect society from a threat. A person commits the ultimate crime ,then to protect the rest of the people in that society the criminal must be removed from society - atonement for the crime is not possible as the victim is dead. Its perfectly logical from a moral and evolutionary standpoint.

Wrong.

The death penalty is a completely ILLOGICAL recourse from any point of view other than animalistic bloodlust.

And because I'll get called a bleedy heart liberal or some other crap sooner or later, have my solution:

Life means life.

If you're sentenced to life, you get locked up in a small room with nothing but your own thoughts until the end of your natural life.

You get no social contact other than with your jailers when let out of your cell for a small amount of (non-social) exercise.

You are given access to writing materials to enable you to contact legal help et cetera if you need to.

But for 23 1/2 hours a day, you're in that cell.

*n

Gilly · 13 Mar 2008 at 16:47

penski said:
.

What happens if, for instance, all the cons you have locked up like this one day have a mass break-out.

You'd have sent already-dangerous prisoners insane (or even more insane) and exacerbated the situation.

uv · 13 Mar 2008 at 16:49

penski said:
Life means life.

not in this country.. the kid that did this will probably do a few years in juvi, and then be given a new identity and freed, as happened with the Bulger kids.

*edit*

mis-read post, I agree

Gilly · 13 Mar 2008 at 16:50

uvmain said:
not in this country...

That was his solution, not what happens already :/

Jotun · 13 Mar 2008 at 17:02

penski said:
If you're sentenced to life, you get locked up in a small room with nothing but your own thoughts until the end of your natural life.

I can't see that ever happening in this country. I think there's more chance of capital punishment than that. Also if what you proposed were to be implemented then I think it'd be a better idea if convicts worked to pay off the cost of imprisoning them till they died as well.

Andrew1978 · 13 Mar 2008 at 17:39

DJammyRasta said:
To the people saying that people shouldn't dress like a goth as that attracts attention as Andrew1978 said this has nothing at all to do with the victims being goths this was to do with a bunch of ****'s beating on a couple of people for being different, any difference would have done

I

I never said anything of the sort, i couldn't care less how people dress but to assume some people wont judge you based on your apperance is naive. What i said was that i believe they would have done this to anyone not just people who dress alternatlively although dressing the way did made them a more likely target.

Azagoth · 13 Mar 2008 at 17:45

penski said:
*Snip*

Firstly though we'd have to pressure the cretinous government we currently have to pull out of, and tear up, that damn European Human Rights Act that they signed us up for.

Domo · 13 Mar 2008 at 23:54

penski said:
The death penalty is a completely ILLOGICAL recourse from any point of view other than animalistic bloodlust.

Couldn't agree more. I'm shocked at the amount of people calling for the death penatly to be re-introduced.

Capital punishment is brutal - and the lack of remorse after an execution surely makes those calling for the act no better than the executed. Actually, some individuals who face the death penalty are genuinely remorseful.

Fortunately pragmatism continues to determine sentencing in our justice system and not emotion or revenge. Retribution is bad.

aardvark · 14 Mar 2008 at 09:37

penski said:
Wrong.

The death penalty is a completely ILLOGICAL recourse from any point of view other than animalistic bloodlust.

And because I'll get called a bleedy heart liberal or some other crap sooner or later, have my solution:

Life means life.

If you're sentenced to life, you get locked up in a small room with nothing but your own thoughts until the end of your natural life.

You get no social contact other than with your jailers when let out of your cell for a small amount of (non-social) exercise.

You are given access to writing materials to enable you to contact legal help et cetera if you need to.

But for 23 1/2 hours a day, you're in that cell.

*n

i disagree
surprisingly the bible is actually correct on this point - an eye for an eye - what's more logical or fair than that?? If you remove someone from existence, you yourself are removed from existence - no emotion involved, no bloodlust.
Your way, life means life, means you are effectively torturing the killer for the rest of his/her life - what's more barbaric and animalistic than that? And society also loses because of the costs involved in keeping these people alive.

the only problem i have with the death penalty is the justice system and the potential for mistakes - it should only be applied when the evidence is absolutely incontrovertible.