What if the law in the country is thou shalt not commit murder? Remember, murder != killing.
Goth Clothes Prompted Killing
- Thread starter nikebee
- Start date
What if the law in the country is thou shalt not commit murder? Remember, murder != killing.
The legal framework surrounding the death penalty would be the same legal framework that already exists. End of life terms are the same as death penalties - the only difference being once the appeals process has been exhausted you still have a prisoner to feed, house, educate, stimulate etc. The money saved with the death penalty could be used to provide a more robust framework (and not just the gallows...)
Ultimately innocent people will always be falsely imprisoned and possibly for life. The main difficulty is that once the execution has taken place thats it - there is no return to life no matter what happens. So mistakes are viewed that much worse.
Ultimately innocent people will always be falsely imprisoned and possibly for life. The main difficulty is that once the execution has taken place thats it - there is no return to life no matter what happens. So mistakes are viewed that much worse.
Just out of interest, do you have the same absolutist views on Abortion?
Soldato
- Joined
- 28 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 2,826
- Location
- London
Personally i would prefer a life of hard labour instead of a death penalty, rate them both over life locked up in a cell though, still see that as a much more twisted punishment, humans just weren't designed to spend that much time without any interaction
Hard labour they would at least be paying their own way, they would be making a contribution to the world, and if you properly rotated things correctly it would also solve the overpopulation of inmates problem by having them work shifts and not have everyone in their cells at the same times
Hard labour they would at least be paying their own way, they would be making a contribution to the world, and if you properly rotated things correctly it would also solve the overpopulation of inmates problem by having them work shifts and not have everyone in their cells at the same times
Which are?
utterly bizzare....So you're not bothered about it then, but you are up for an argument about whether the death penalty is murder or not? [Hicks] Seems like a convoluted way of saying 'the sanctity of life should be an absolute'. I think he has missed the entire 'deal' with abortion. They can't speak out for themselves & don't have the same rights as 'other people of all ages'. Doesn't seem funny at all...is it mean to be? Looking through the list of quotes he seems a bit odd tbh
His view was that yes, the sanctity of life is absolute and he had a hatred for anyone who had a 'think of the children' mentality - we are all one and we are all of equal worth after all.
But a foetus isn't a person.
It is a bunch of conjugated cells.
*n
Of course the death penalty is murder... that's pretty indisputable. It's all about whether it's justified.
As for Hicks... it looks like it's more to do with the fact that he wasn't that bothered about nitpicking. Abortion is one of those arguments you can't convince other people about - they will always be divided. It's almost as subjective as saying "band X are really good" - "no, they're not, band Y are better". You'll never convince someone that their views on abortion are wrong.
Well if a 28 week old baby isn't a person what is?
The temptation is to say "You're not a person until you're in the phone book" but I'd say that at the point of birth following full gestation, a foetus becomes a person.
*n
So a 28-week premature baby delivered by emergency C-Section is a person, but a 28-week old 'foetus' isn't? Rather sad tbh
So a 28-week premature baby delivered by emergency C-Section is a person, but a 28-week old 'foetus' isn't? Rather sad tbh
A 28 week old premature birth is not fully able to survive by itself; they require constant care until they mature to the point where they can survive as well as a normal birth following a full nine month gestation.
*n
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 27 Sep 2004
- Posts
- 25,821
- Location
- Glasgow
So a 28-week premature baby delivered by emergency C-Section is a person, but a 28-week old 'foetus' isn't? Rather sad tbh
You are asking about something that is very much a grey area and probably always will be. We now have the medical techniques to support life from a much younger age than would previously be possible so for example a baby born a month prematurely (I haven't checked out the exact figures but it is just meant to be illustrative) 100 years ago would have an 80% mortality rate, now that would be an 90% survival rate. So 100 years ago you basically had a baby go full term or near as damnit before it had a good chance of survival - that would automatically impact on when you think a foetus becomes a person.
I'd probably suggest something along the lines of the youngest age from conception where a baby has at least a 50% survival rate or higher as an average with that being the last possible chance to abort and only then in limited circumstances (mother or babies life is in danger anyway etc). It is a line in the sand but it is no more or less arbitrary than any other.
I'm not arguing that it can survive on it's own. A 5 year-old couldn't, does that mean they're not a person too? Bizarre
So a 28-week premature baby delivered by emergency C-Section is a person, but a 28-week old 'foetus' isn't? Rather sad tbh
I had to deal with this point years ago, standing pro-abortion in a school debate when I was about 16.
It all comes down to what you define as 'life' and something being 'alive'. The very basic definition of 'alive' is something which is capable of existing and breathing on its own as a separate entity from anything else.
A foetus is not alive, nor is a zygote... these things just have the potential for life.
By 'survive', I don't mean 'get a job and cook/clean/fend for itself', I mean 'eat, breathe and live'.
*n
I'm talking about the nature of 'person'. i.e When can we call someone by a name? In fact I think it's very common for mothers to give names to babies who die in the womb due to complications etc etc etc. I'm sure it would make the grieving process easier, but also recognises that they were once alive, albeit supported by the mother.
Last edited: