Was lifting the foreign player rule such a good idea?

I like it how it is, it's down to the clubs as to whether they want to have English players. If they're good enough they'll play.

Let us not forget the team at the top of the league has a lot of English players:
Foster
Brown
Ferdinand
Carrick
Hargreaves
Scholes
Rooney

We also have Fletcher, O'Shea and Giggs as British players. Then there are the fringe players like Welbeck, Campbell, Eagles as well as the many other not so well known players.

I don't think it should be enforced myself, I think it would be at the detriment to the league, Portsmouth and Arsenal would immediately struggle as they'd need to shell out a lot of money for players that aren't as good as those they already have.
 
I don't think it should be enforced myself, I think it would be at the detriment to the league, Portsmouth and Arsenal would immediately struggle as they'd need to shell out a lot of money for players that aren't as good as those they already have.

While that is plainly the case, if you implemented it like I said it wouldn't really be an issue. By 2010 you need 2 Englishmen in your first team squad. By 2011 you need 3, by 2012 you need four...
 
The problem is that the level of expectation for the National side is way too high. Sure, England won the world cup in 1966, but what else have they done on the world stage?

If you take the signing of Ardilles and Villa by Spurs as the start of the foreign invasion, how many tournaments prior to this did England fail to qualify for or perform poorly in?

The other thing to keep in mind is that before the foreigners appeared English sides had loads of non-English players from Wales, North and South Ireland and Scotland.
 
Why aren't more English players playing abroad? How comes the Premiership is full of up-coming Spanish, French and German stars and yet none of the English players want to take a gamble and play in their leagues?
 
Quality Foreign players are not to blame
Some problems we face in this country are :-

1. Young lads have the wrong mentality, young english kids would rather go out and get lashed/ stay in and play playstation/ go to *pick any fast food company* and hang out with their mates - the continentals just don't have this mind set and are more willing or enjoy training or being coached.
2. Young players are paid far to much leading to a general temptation to partake in non football activities, Ronaldo aside I cannot think of any young player getting mixed up with hookers drink driving or anything else along these lines.
3. Scouting networks of all major and in fact most teams through Premiership, Championship and even Div 1 sides are worldwide. Our kids are not just competing against other English kids anymore they're competing against kids from all over the world and I'm afraid Arsenal are one of the worst clubs for this.
4. Linked to the above is the forming of relationships/tie ins or whatever with clubs abroad Arsenal again guilty with a club in Belgium (forget the name might be Henarven) where players/kids are swapped. There are also soccer schools set up internationally Africa is a hotbed at the moment.
5. No english coaches coming through and I mean coaches not managers although the latter is an issue too and in general coaches teaching are terrible some of stuff I've seen going around many teams in Essex is shocking, kids are taught to run run run do keepy up's and are made to play with a full size ball - it's a No swearing - Gillyjoke believe me!
6. Grass roots football is not well enough supported by our FA, I'm a FA afiliated coach and we got more help financially from McDonalds which although good in terms of them giving equipment to the club I worked for it's hardly a glowing endorsement to the kids I was coaching at the time.
7. Parents - Some of the stuff I've seen at games begs belief- they are constanting ranting at their kids always highlighting negatives and rarely saying to little Jonny well done good game. I doesn't surprise me that a lot of kids give up.
8. Not enough sport in Schools be it football or anything and again lack of funding and poor structure. Look at the systems in Europe/States the facilities the resources available.
9. Schools selling their playing fields for housing or other brownfield use. To playing fields nowhere to play.
10. Inferior Foreigners playing in our game and stopping young english talent coming through - we can all name foreign turkeys who have played in this country.
11. WE have no decent centre for soccer excellence like for example the French do in Clairefontaine again the FA are to blame- we ****ed a load of money building wembley and binned the major National Football academy that was going to be built.
12. Both LA Liga and Seria A are awash with foreigners they have not suffered the same fate in their national teams as us English

I could go on but i'll stop at 12 points for now, these problems have been going on for years and are NOT recent events, and this is general is why England have not done anything since 1966. Fix these issues and it will help a hell of a lot and with the exception of the crap foreigners I think the foreigners have benefited our game immensely, kids see the guys and try and copy the tricks and abilities that they see yes the diving and all that rubbish we could do without.
 
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Why aren't more English players playing abroad? How comes the Premiership is full of up-coming Spanish, French and German stars and yet none of the English players want to take a gamble and play in their leagues?

Partly because English players are too expensive. As soon as a good youngster comes along a massive price tag is placed on their head and foreign clubs just aren't interested in spending that on them.
 
The players we have available are just as good as those that other international sides have, it's just that England has been totally mismanaged and left in the state it's in now. Players that look quality for their clubs look mediocre for England and that can't just be the players fault- we have 4 teams left in Europe with which you could make a quality XI for England yet it just doesn't seem to work.
AARRGH!!!!

I'd like to see England do well, even though i do live in N. Ireland, i really would.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but i think the root of the problem is that so many fans, journalitists, experts e.t.c are so loyal, devoted and passionate about the National side that any sense of objectivity has been lost and you cannot see the teams faults.

Its easy to blame the manager. But where do you go to find ones with better pedigres tahn the likes of Robson, Erickson and Capello. How do you top that!

I'd suggest you replay some of Englands games. Against Croatia they were cleary second best in every area. Sure, the manager may pick the side and dictate tactics, but look at the gulf there was in terms of the players technical ability, i.e basic ball-control, passing and movement.

Not untill these issues are addressed will things improve.
 
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I think the route of the problem is English players having minimal representation in Europe and our own domestic league.

Go back to the beginning of the Premiership, when foreigners weren't so common in our league, and we had some stars playing overseas (Walker, Gascoigne, Platt...). Remind me again how England did in the tournaments of the time? Finished bottom of the group stage in Euro'92, and didn't even qualify for USA'94. Wow, we really showed Johnny foreigner back then, eh?:)

France won the WC in 1998 with fewer than 10 home-based players. Their Euro 2000 squad had only 7. So I don't think that you necessarily need a strong domestic league to be succesful.

The English Premiership is arguably one of the best leagues in the world so why do we not have a strong representation of English players at home and abroad?

Why is this do you think? Is it that the English are too greedy? Or do they not get a chance because of the presence of foreign players blocking progress of players coming through ranks.

I think it is because of the following reasons:

1) There is around 500 first team places available at Premiership clubs, but we don't have 500 top class English players. English clubs are not inherent xenophiles, who would turn away dozens of brilliant footballers just because they are English. If there were so many great English players, they would have been signed up.

2) Prices quoted for English players are a bit of a joke. Lower league clubs often want upwards of £5m for their stars who have done little or nothing at the top level - so it's not surprising some Premiership managers shop abroad and get current internationals for a couple of mill.

3) Foreign clubs don't buy many English players because a) Most of them aren't good enough; and b) Most of them are overpriced or have outrageous wage demands having been spoiled by the Premiership.
 
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The playstation/culture issue is also wrong as playstations are not exclusively available in the UK- they have them in other countries too.

True, but other countries also have schools that encourage physical exercise, rather than concentrating (imho poorly) on just the academic side.

My 7 yo has a grand total of 1 hour of PE each week, and if we didn't encourage him to go and play football outside of school or go swimming etc, he would be very happy to sit in the house watching crap telly or playing on my ps/computer. I'm sure when I were a lad, we had at least two double sessions a week, plus other clubs to join.

Grass roots is fine, but lets get right back into the soil and set the right conditions for the kids to want to get involved.

Do away with all of this namby-pamby non-competitive sport trash at school too :mad:, but I'll save that argument for another thread
 
I was just about to mention the apparent lack of any competitiveness anywhere in schools these days.
 
Can't do competitiveness. People lose, it damages children. So just give everyone a medal :/

When I was young I was always outside playing with my friends at soldiers, on our bikes etc... Our imaginations were on overdrive. Then I found computers and I'm a fatty now :( ....my own fault.
 
I like it how it is, it's down to the clubs as to whether they want to have English players. If they're good enough they'll play.

Let us not forget the team at the top of the league has a lot of English players:
Foster
Brown
Ferdinand
Carrick
Hargreaves
Scholes
Rooney

We also have Fletcher, O'Shea and Giggs as British players. Then there are the fringe players like Welbeck, Campbell, Eagles as well as the many other not so well known players.

I don't think it should be enforced myself, I think it would be at the detriment to the league, Portsmouth and Arsenal would immediately struggle as they'd need to shell out a lot of money for players that aren't as good as those they already have.

Exactly!

________FOSTER
NEVILLE_RIO_BROWN_EVANS
______HARGREAVES
___SCHOLES__CARRICK
EAGLES__________GIGGS
________ROONEY

A whole british team that would not look out of place in a Premiership match :)
 
UEFA president Michel Platini has launched another attack on Premiership clubs over their recruiting of young players.

The Mail on Sunday says Platini is scathing in his criticism of English clubs that encourage boys to join them from abroad at the age of 16 or 17 - a practice that was pioneered by Arsene Wenger at Arsenal, most famously in the recruitment of Cesc Fabregas from Barcelona. The policy is now also widely used by Liverpool and Chelsea.

UEFA's president says he is working with the European Commission to introduce an exemption to labour laws specifically for football, which would prevent England's top clubs from encouraging boys from abroad to join them.

Platini said: "I have told the European Commission that we should ban the transfer of minors.

"The first football contract that a player signs should be for club that trains them. You don't train someone to be sold, you train a player to play. It is important to protect our young people. Minors shouldn't be seen as a machine that can be transferred for the benefit of agents or clubs. They have time enough for that.

"I left for another country at 25. You don't need to leave at 15. It's to do with protecting social values, family values. There is no justification for buying them at 15, getting them over with parents, that is just not on.

"I really don't like it when a club like Lugano, Geneve, Brescia or Nancy train a player and then when they are 16 they are bought by much richer clubs. We're going to fight it."

While United were criticised by Platini and have signed 16-year-olds such as Gerard Pique from Barcelona, only four of their 24-strong academy are from abroad and just 18 per cent of their playing squad under the age of 21 are from overseas.

I'm really starting to dislike the bloke. He's as bad as Blatter, just can't keep his nose out of our game without saying something negative towards us. If it was Italy/France/Spain doing it he wouldn't care.
 
I didn't like Taiwo, Woods and Rose being stolen from us by Chelsea and Spurs respectively.

In terms of output we have probably the best youth setup in the country. We don't have the cash to make up for losing our youth talent to more affluent clubs, we've put time and money into their training in development so they can play for the team, not so we can sell them before they're worth anything.

He makes a bit of sense there.
 
I would say Leeds were up there, but Middlesbrough probably have the best.
Whilst Leeds' kids look decent, probably no more than Man Utds, but we rarely give our kids chances.

Looking at the performances of Danny Simpson, Johnny Evans, Ryan Shawcross, Sylvain Ebanks-Blake and Frazier Campbell goes some way to proving my point as to how strong our youth setup is. The problem is, all too often we don't really look at what is infront of us, using our youth setup as a way of making money from sales to fund purchases of more senior kids from other teams.
 
Firstly, always get agrieved when people have an easy go at Arsenal. Wenger plowed millions into training Bentley, Hoytes 1 and 2, Upson, Pennant, Cashley, Theo and just lots of players. We have a lot of foreign players but so what. frankly Hoyte could have become the worlds best centre back, while Rooney turned out to be crap, you can't know if someone will make it when you bring them in at the ages of 10-16. Arsenal are being punished for not playing first team English players, because two left/were poached and ran off to get more money despite both being ridiculously highly paid, and youngsters not becoming as good as expected.
Not to mention we had fairly little money a small stadium in a very expensive city and weren't raking it in like Man U/liverpool or backed by a billionaire.

But either way, its not even a problem. England having foreign players in the league doesn't matter. The entire team that played in the game(ok probably just 98% of it) play on a montly basis against teams that feature all the best players in international football. They can all be in squads that can beat these teams for their club but not country. They played like crap, that means we know they can play better, the reason they didn't play better is what needs fixing.

We need less money involved in and more grounding, teaching and education of our young stars. how many have problematic attitudes mostly because they were paid to much and just don't act like well, adults really. We need better training.

For some reason a lot of smart people point out that technically we are worse than other teams and thats all we hear. our coaching setup has to get better, this seems to have mostly led to the entire country deciding "technical" stands for "doing pointless tricks" so we have all these kids learning to do kickups, getting drunk and not learning the basics of football. Tricks are easy for someone who spends all day long playing with a football, but our kids are mostly just learning the tricks. Take a Ronaldo of Fabregas, the things that make them great are the same in both cases. Positional play, tactical awareness, vision, passing, knowing when and where to run, dropping off players, making space, turning into space, turning away from tackles. None of that is tricks, or skill even, thats mostly just tactical, or technical knowledge of the game.

Ronaldo on top of that can do tricks, but those tricks would be mostly useless(downing/joe cole) if he didn't make perfectly timed runs, pass fantastically and make space for himself.

Our youngsters all focus on learning Ronaldo's tricks, rather than his positional play, thats our countrys biggest failing. With every new crop of english players we seem to get more "tricky" players, but ones that have no end game, they don't know the basic's. They are dumb, rich, can flick the ball but have no idea where to run or when. Thats englands problem. We're training the flash stuff and ignoring the basics that every great player in the world learnt when they were young.


The team has little to no balance, chooses out of form players for the squad for no apparent reason, ignores great players because they are at the wrong clubs and in general seems to be chosen based on the most popular public opinion. The most popular public opinion of who should be in the team and what team/tactics will win a cup for us, is ALWAYS wrong, but they don't learn either.


Then on top of all of that, why make the premier league worse, and it WILL be worse. With some 38 games per club a season, 100's of games total of entertainment(well lots are good, some crap) at the expense of supposedly making england play better in what, 8-10 games a year? I wouldn't hate it if England won a cup, but frankly, I watch football weekly, i want the league to be the best it can be, bar non. Screw the international football, no team that doesn't practice together every day will ever play as good football. International football will NEVER be on the same level as top flight league football, its simply impossible. Why trade 100's of entertaining games a year for a handfull of england games assuming it would fix englands terrible performances? if the prem league got substanstially worse, viewing and attendance figures dropped, advertising, ticket prices, wages, and numbers trying to become footballers would all drop. It makes zero sense to damage the league, theres not one logical reason it would improve the English game, but dozens of reasons its likely to make England even worse.
 
One thing I've never quite grasped is the obsession with British players.
All that matters (in terms of this debate) is English players - it's not like Giggs, Fletcher, Evans etc are gonna be donning the 3 Lions anytime soon.

Look at Arsenal on Sunday. I think (and I may be wrong here) there was only one player in the starting 11 that was English

One thing I think a lot of people forget is that the first top flight side to field an entirely foreign XI was not in fact the modern day Arsenal, but actually Liverpool around 20 years ago who sent out such a side for the FA Cup final.
 
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