Canada seal hunting

Ceryndrion said:
Method of killing: Clubbing is best, and generally done with a vet in the vicinity (this is part of the law iirc). Shooting is useless, because a shot seal, will dive under the ice immediately, and drown as it bleeds to death.
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So if you walk up to a seal and shoot it directly in the head (which we know you can do), it will "dive under the ice immediately and drown as it bleeds to death", but if you club it repeteadly over the head (eventually killing it), it will just stay put until you've finished?

Damn, those seals are tough No Swearing. I wonder why they're immune to bullets but not clubs? And why don't they dive under the ice when you're clubbing them? :confused:
 
Evangelion said:
Easy. :)

Dog and cockfighting consists of forcing two animals to fight each other when under normal circumstances they would have no reason to do so. This is unnatural and inhumane.
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Dogs do fight naturally though.

If you did it in a field (as close to a dogs natural habitat as your going to get in Britain.) does it become natural?
 
Evangelion said:
Damn, those seals are tough No Swearing. I wonder why they're immune to bullets but not clubs? And why don't they dive under the ice when you're clubbing them? :confused:
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To stun something/render it unconscious you must make its brain move a lot inside it's skull, a bullet doesn't really do that as it just passes through, and a lot of animals,including humans can survive a large part of their brain being torn through by a bullet, and retain conciousness.
 
I'm no hippie or tree hugger by any means, I just find it very grim and inhumane. I swear there must be a more humane way to kill them.. or is it the hunters are all very sick in the head and get enjoyment out of it.

Like others, I have also got a problem with what the end product is, the fur. Fair do's to the native people who need to kill them to live, life or death stuff.. they make use of all the seal.

The seals i've seen are so not used to humans they don't even consider them as a threat, they simply sit there. So to say a form of killing other than cubbing won't work is just silly. If you can get close enough to smash a metal pole over their heads, your close enough to do pretty much anything.. (bolt gun to the head). To say that costs too much money in terns of buying the guns and ammo is also crazy, with the amount of money that is made with the fur the cost of bolt guns would be a small blip.

The earth has been looking after itself just fine before culling of animals.. some can be justified, but I think greed is what is driving the the seal hunting.

Def agree theres worse things going on in the world with humans, this is just something I find shocking and always will.
 
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2StepSteve said:
The earth has been looking after itself just fine before culling of animals..
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and it did it by letting the seals etc eat most of the fish then starving nest year till their population went down so more fish survived then there where more seals next year, rinse and repeat etc.

however we now use the fish, and if we want to keep getting them we need to remove the competition,

I love how people say, nature always found a way etc before humans, completely ignoring the fact we are part of nature, and just doing the same as every other animal on the planet, only difference being we're better at it...
 
2StepSteve said:
I'm sure humans do far more damage to fish stocks than seals do
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As i said we're better at it, and it's not "damage" it's natural hunting, there's only enough food for so many animals, most will just eat all they can and breed then when there's nothing left to eat starve and die, we have fore site and so protect our supplies, before they are too threatened, however everything defends it's food when its low, even fungi, which is why we have penicillin

the hunting is all about profit.
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.

Which then goes to buy food, or to buy products, and the people who sell those use it to buy things and food and so on and so on.

Without profit we'd all starve, well most of us.
 
greengiant said:
Seals can't eat cabbage, humans don't have to eat fish! So fish less!
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So what about the other animals that eat the fish why should seals be special?

You don't see any other animal willingly give up food supplies do you?

And even if we fished less the seals would grow multiply and eat more until the fish stocks couldn't support them then we'd have more bleeding harts saying how we should feed all the starving seals...
 
Tefal said:
So what about the other animals that eat the fish why should seals be special?

You don't see any other animal willingly give up food supplies do you?

And even if we fished less the seals would grow multiply and eat more until the fish stocks couldn't support them then we'd have more bleeding harts saying how we should feed all the starving seals...
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Then nature would be controlling the population!
 
greengiant said:
Then nature would be controlling the population!
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errr so when did we stop being animals and transcend into immortal super beings with no need to eat?

Nature is
resource > competition> one animal comes out on top

which is what this is, competition, we're just better at it :)

And you obviously can't argue on humanitarian grounds any more, as its arguably far more inhumane to starve a seal, than to quickly club it.
 
Tefal said:
Dogs do fight naturally though.
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Yes, but they do it for natural reasons; territory, dominance, competition over a female, etc. Forcing two dogs to fight is not natural.

If you did it in a field (as close to a dogs natural habitat as your going to get in Britain.) does it become natural?
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No.
 
Tefal said:
To stun something/render it unconscious you must make its brain move a lot inside it's skull, a bullet doesn't really do that as it just passes through, and a lot of animals
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The beauty of a bullet is that it actually stops the brain from functioning, Tefal. You see, shooting someone in the skull is more effective than clubbing them over the head. That's why our soldiers in Iraq are armed with guns instead of clubs, Tefal.

Can you see our brave soldiers triumphing over the Iraqi insurgents by running through a hail of bullets in the hope of staying alive long enough to whack them over the head with clubs? No, neither can I, Tefal.

including humans can survive a large part of their brain being torn through by a bullet, and retain conciousness.
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Yes, and examples of this are rare because the chances of this happening are incredibly low, and the right conditions must be met in order for it to happen. And even when it does happen, the person/animal may be alive, but is rendered as good as dead becasue it is incapable functioning properly. It certainly cannot dive beneath the ice, slip quietly through the silky waters, and swim to safety with a merry smile on its face.

Wheras if you hold a gun to someone's head and pull the trigger, you can be guaranteed that the result will be satisfactory.

Here's a genuine offer: I propose to test your confidence in the "Well, shooting them in the head doesn't work anyway; it's much better to use a club" argument by requesting that you agree to a scientific experiment involving your head, my loaded gun, and an itchy trigger finger. After I've shot you in the head, you can take a club (provided) and attempt to stun or kill me instantly with a single blow to the skull.

How soon can we meet?

:)
 
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Evangelion said:
The beauty of a bullet is that it actually stops the brain from functioning, Tefal. You see, shooting someone in the skull is more effective than clubbing them over the head. That's why our soldiers in Iraq are armed with guns instead of clubs, Tefal.

Can you see our brave soldiers triumphing over the Iraqi insurgents by running through a hail of bullets in the hope of staying alive long enough to whack them over the head with clubs? No, neither can I, Tefal.
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1) if any of our troops who isn't a marksman/sniper gets a head shot it would be a fluke, we use rifles because they are good against the chest cavity, and provide a nice bit of distance, after all it takes several clubs to the body to kill someone.

Yes, and examples of this are rare because the chances of this happening are incredibly low, and the right conditions must be met in order for it to happen. And even when it does happen, the person/animal may be alive, but is rendered as good as dead becasue it is incapable functioning properly. It certainly cannot dive beneath the ice, slip quietly through the silky waters, and swim to safety with a merry smile on its face.
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2) No example of animals surviving shots to the head are not rare even dogs can take several shots to the brain, people however use far more of their brain, and it fills a larger portion of our head, and we generally have thinner skulls and less protection than animals.

3) it doesn't need to slip away safely merely haul it's self to the edge which is probably quite close then it will sink and drown.

4) it may be incapable of surving long term but most will still be able to fight/run, you would have to get the brain stem to have a fairly certain chance of killing it on the first go not to mention if your using a bolt gun having to hold it's head without it biting you, or if your using a rifle/pistol make sure it doesn't move, crack the ice with the shot, or get a ricochet from the stones of on a beach in your shin.

Here's a genuine offer: I propose to test your confidence in the "Well, shooting them in the head doesn't work anyway; it's much better to use a club" argument by requesting that you agree to a scientific experiment involving your head, my loaded gun, and an itchy trigger finger. After I've shot you in the head, you can take a club (provided) and attempt to stun or kill me instantly with a single blow to the skull.

How soon can we meet?
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Fine you get the gun, I'll be in Manchester in a week, so just name the bar :)
 
Evangelion said:
The beauty of a bullet is that it actually stops the brain from functioning, Tefal. You see, shooting someone in the skull is more effective than clubbing them over the head. That's why our soldiers in Iraq are armed with guns instead of clubs, Tefal.
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I ain't read the whole thread but there's plenty of people with bullets in their heads with functioning brains, even a couple of peeps with half their brain blown off and still functioning, is it different for other mammals?. The only way to stop the brain working all the time is to take away the blood from it and the most effeicient way to do that is a quick slit of the throat. Brain can't detect pain if there's no blood going to it afaik. As for the clubbing thing, logistics I suppose for the reason they're doing it etc
 
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I looked vainly for a copy of GTA's old sig to post in this thread and I can't find it anywhere :(
 
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