Islam is now also an excuse for them to abuse children?

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Evangelion said:
Of course, it didn't take much to "emancipate" women in those days, considering the conditions under which they were suffering at the time. Just about anything would have been an improvement.

Still, it was emancipation... of a sort. And how amusingly ironic, given that Islam is now virtually synonymous with misogyny.
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What makes you say it didn't take much? BULL. It took a complete rewiring of the entire culture's attitude to the woman's role in society. A complete tidal wave of change in the society. Not much? :confused:

I like how your comment 'virtually synonymous with misogny' so succintly sums up the average UK person's view of Islam. It shows how well the media did its job since 9/11. And also why I take 90% of commentary about Islam as completely misinformed. But then again, its also amusingly ironic how the 'UK and democracy' as ideological concepts (that people here are proud of) have also become virtually synonymous with massacre, greed, hypocricy, illegal wars and colonialism. Which side of the coin would you like to be on?
 
Random Guy said:
What makes you say it didn't take much? BULL. It took a complete rewiring of the entire culture's attitude to the woman's role in society. A complete tidal wave of change in the society. Not much? :confused:

I like how your comment 'virtually synonymous with misogny' so succintly sums up the average UK person's view of Islam. It shows how well the media did its job since 9/11. And also why I take 90% of commentary about Islam as completely misinformed. But then again, its also amusingly ironic how the 'UK and democracy' as ideological concepts (that people here are proud of) have also become virtually synonymous with massacre, greed, hypocricy, illegal wars and colonialism. Which side of the coin would you like to be on?
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If you hate it so much then why are you still living here nthen(In the western world) :confused:

Dont like it in the western world? **** off then:)
 
Random Guy said:
I like how your comment 'virtually synonymous with misogny' so succintly sums up the average UK person's view of Islam. It shows how well the media did its job since 9/11. And also why I take 90% of commentary about Islam as completely misinformed. But then again, its also amusingly ironic how the 'UK and democracy' as ideological concepts (that people here are proud of) have also become virtually synonymous with massacre, greed, hypocricy, illegal wars and colonialism. Which side of the coin would you like to be on?
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90% of commentary on Islam is misinformed - both good and bad. Generally if you dig deeper, you find its exactly what you expect but there are more complex reasons for it being so.
 
Zip said:
If you hate it so much then why are you still living here nthen(In the western world) :confused:

Dont like it in the western world? **** off then:)
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Can you get much further east than Australia?


I'm pretty sure thats why you lot are there ;):p
 
Zip said:
If you hate it so much then why are you still living here nthen(In the western world) :confused:

Dont like it in the western world? **** off then:)
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Naaah, why don't you [commented out for the sake of this thread]? :) I mean I can realise from the above comment that you still need a few years of intellectual maturity but you might want to speed up the process...

RDM said:
The UK, none of the Islamic states rate for me as places to live...
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I wasn't asking where you would like to live, just which moral equivalence you would like applied to yourself.

cleanbluesky said:
90% of commentary on Islam is misinformed - both good and bad. Generally if you dig deeper, you find its exactly what you expect but there are more complex reasons for it being so.
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I see where you are coming from, but I am afraid that discussion starts at a completely different point (i.e. the acceptance of God and faith).
 
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RDM said:
I will still go with the UK. The practical application of the moral equivilance seems to work out better.
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Hahaha nice one. Not true though. Unless of course you are simply talking about the purely individualistic point of view (i.e. all other human life apart from mine - and maybe people who think like me - is worth less).

shaffaaf27 said:
no need to switch to personal threats now.
i was liking this debate...dont get the tread closed
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Fine. Edited it. And telling people to f-off from a country is a-okay with you is it? I think the lack of response by other posters to that ones speaks volumes.
 
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Random Guy said:
Hahaha nice one. Not true though.
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How is it not true? The upstanding morals of Islam, when applied to running a state seem to fall down quite badly in practice. The evil and corrupt western democracies/imperial warmongers, when applied to running a state seem to work out OK. Now it may just be that an Islamic state just hasn't been done right yet, but so far, it isn't looking to be high on the list of "Things that work out well".

I tend to see Western Democracy as the least worst option of government. Theocracy of any type I tend to class considerably lower...
 
Random Guy said:
I see where you are coming from, but I am afraid that discussion starts at a completely different point (i.e. the acceptance of God and faith).
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I think that's a valid discussion point - one of the most common defences (particularly by Muslims) against accusations of the negative effects of Islam is that bad practices are corruptions of the teaching. I think the question of how 'interpretation' and practice should represent a regligion is a valid one.
 
RDM said:
How is it not true? The upstanding morals of Islam, when applied to running a state seem to fall down quite badly in practice. The evil and corrupt western democracies/imperial warmongers, when applied to running a state seem to work out OK. Now it may just be that an Islamic state just hasn't been done right yet, but so far, it isn't looking to be high on the list of "Things that work out well".
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From a Macro/Governmental perspective, I don't disagree with you at all. In fact I think most ME countries are a shambles because of the tribal-hierarchical government structure (a far cry from the equality of all that is a fundamental of Islamic teaching) that so highly decouples the bulk of people from the state. Having said that, I think this is also a problem in most of the Third World. The question also becomes one of how such a state of affairs is reacted to. From the average muslim living in those countries, they are highly p-o'd at the state of affairs, believe me. And anyway, such a discussion is for a whole different thread.

Now regarding the moral equivalence thing, where you ask 'How is it not true?' All I have to say on the matter is 'Iraq'.

cleanbluesky said:
I agree - the biggest problem with discussing Islam is the failure to actually communicate in the first place.
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Yup, and people like Zip, who don't even live here, telling me to ****-off from this country, do you think that might also be part of the problem? :rolleyes:
 
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Random Guy said:
Yup, and people like Zip, who don't even live here, telling me to ****-off from this country, do you think that might also be part of the problem? :rolleyes:
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I said the western world not the UK;)

If you dont like living somewhere or the way something is run then move on, find somewhere else were you might be more happy and agree with.
 
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