2008 Bahrain GP - Race 3/18

sunama said:
In the modern F1 era, the top teams always remain at the top, regardless of the rule changes
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sunama said:
Oh and btw, the modern era, effectively began, I think, in the 70's.
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No team or teams has consitently dominated anything more than a quarter of that period at a time.

Ferrari won 6 constructors championships in the 70s and early 80s then nothing until 1999.

McLaren dominated the mid 80s/early 90s, lost the Honda engines and went backwards.

Williams won 5 in 6 years then lost the Renaults and went backwards.

Renault/Benetton/Toleman have only raised themselves out of the midfield as a result of having the right driver (Alonso, MS, Senna) in the right package (tyres, engines etc) at the right time.
 
rpstewart said:
No team or teams has consitently dominated anything more than a quarter of that period at a time.

Ferrari won 6 constructors championships in the 70s and early 80s then nothing until 1999.

McLaren dominated the mid 80s/early 90s, lost the Honda engines and went backwards.

Williams won 5 in 6 years then lost the Renaults and went backwards.

Renault/Benetton/Toleman have only raised themselves out of the midfield as a result of having the right driver (Alonso, MS, Senna) in the right package (tyres, engines etc) at the right time.
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Well put. ;)
 
Just to add, the testing for slicks was for Bridgestone only. I think teams were not allowed to use any information when testing slicks.
 
Emlyn_Dewar said:
I think a wiser way of putting it is 'the team at the top is always a top team'... Which is pretty obvious, but it's not a case of the "top teams" always being at the top. As mentioned above, there have been plenty of times in recent years where one of these teams has got it very wrong.
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Or had the rug pulled from under them. While there are a few real munters out there (95 McLaren, 94 Williams initially, Ferrari 310) most of the recent falls from grace have been as a result of the loss of an engine supply. The 98 Williams and 94 Mclaren being prime examples.
 
jaykay said:
Just to add, the testing for slicks was for Bridgestone only. I think teams were not allowed to use any information when testing slicks.
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The major test of the slicks is their ability to warm up. If the FIA remove tyre warmers next year then cars comming out of the pits will be on stone cold tyres. At the last test for slicks all the drivers complained about the quite frankly terrifying difference in speed between the first lap or 2 on cold tyres compaired to those who had full temperature. The tyres used this time round have been said to warm up a lot quicker, but now dont last anywhere near as long. So yes, this testing is primarily for Bridgestone to develop the tyre, rather than for the teams to test using them.

I hopw for many reasons tyre warmers stay.

Emlyn_Dewar said:
'98 Williams a Supertec affair?
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yeah, but in a funky paintjob!
 
Skeeter said:
I hopw for many reasons tyre warmers stay.
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I think I remember reading/hearing that F1 is the only form of 4 wheeled motor sport where tyre warmers are used... That maybe wrong but it is what I heard/read. So other forms have to cope without them. And like all regulation changes it will be the same for all teams... it might affect the mindset when choosing a pit stop stratergy?
 
I'm really looking forward to next year. There could be some real changes - hey, maybe Adrian Newey's new Red Bull will be the car to beat!
 
tonyyeb said:
I think I remember reading/hearing that F1 is the only form of 4 wheeled motor sport where tyre warmers are used... That maybe wrong but it is what I heard/read. So other forms have to cope without them. And like all regulation changes it will be the same for all teams... it might affect the mindset when choosing a pit stop stratergy?
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Yes, but F1 is much fater and the cars are much more sensitive to changes like this than all other motorsports. Your looking at many second differences in the first lap on cold tyres, which in F1 may as well be a year. We all saw what happened last weekend when a faster car catches a slower one... Having people fly out the pitlane with no grip infront of hooning full temperature cars is going to be dangerous. Forcing no tyre warmers will make Bridgestone have to make a soft tyre that heats up quickly but goes off fast. If this ends up with cars making 3 or 4 stops and people loosing places through having cold tyres and not through driver skill then it will once again feel incredibly artificial. F1 must only be a few steps away from the A1GP boost button!
 
And I suppose that Williams' fall from the top had nothing to do with Adrian Newey's departure (the guy believed by many in the late 90s as the only guy to actually be able to stop Michael Schumacher from winning titles, as there apparently weren't any drivers around that could compete at his level)?

Right now, BMW seem to be doing well. They are actually leading the constructors title. However, like I stated earlier, this is mainly down to the fact that Ferrari had reliability problems in Australia and Hamilton had problems in the other 2 races. Add to this the fact that McLaren no longer have Alonso, means that McLaren are going to be a little weaker, however, I still feel that come the year end, McLaren and Ferarri will finish ahead of BMW and a Ferrari or McLaren driver will claim the WDC. If all this comes true, this will go some way to proving my point that the removal of driver aids, in 2008, havent really had much of an effect.

clv101 said:
I'm really looking forward to next year.
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Thats what many said about 2008. Yet, after the initial race of the season, we have settled down in to the usual processional racing we all are used to.
 
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tonyyeb said:
I think I remember reading/hearing that F1 is the only form of 4 wheeled motor sport where tyre warmers are used... That maybe wrong but it is what I heard/read. So other forms have to cope without them. And like all regulation changes it will be the same for all teams... it might affect the mindset when choosing a pit stop stratergy?
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Certainly IndyCar etc in the US don't use them, I assume NASCAR is the same since they think a trolley jack is high tech.

I'm not 100% about ALMS/LMS/Le Mans.

If you want to know how cold tyres affect pit stops ask Gerhard Berger about his Estoril faux pas. He planted it coming out of the pits (no limiter in those days), turned the wheel for the gentle curve from the pit exit onto the racing line and went straight on into the wall on the far side of the pit straight...
 
sunama said:
And I suppose that Williams' fall from the top had nothing to do with Adrian Newey's departure (the guy believed by many in the late 90s as the only guy to actually be able to stop Michael Schumacher from winning titles, as there apparently weren't any drivers around that could compete at his level)?
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Make up your mind! First you say its all drivers not regulations, then you say the loss of Newey was Williams downfall! Make up your mind! ;)
 
tonyyeb said:
Make up your mind! First you say its all drivers not regulations, then you say the loss of Newey was Williams downfall! Make up your mind! ;)
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Bennetton in 1994/95 went down in 96 because of the loss of MS and some other key personnel.

Williams in late 90s went down because of the loss of Renault (the most powerful engine in F1), compounded with the loss of Adrian Newey. Newey would later design the McLaren car that would go onto beat MS, 2 yrs in succession.

Renault went down after their success in 2005/06, as their talisman was gone. If you look at what Renault's other driver (Fisichella) did for them in these 2 yrs, you will see that he did very little. In these 2 yrs, without Alonso, Renault probably would have done very little.

Notice that in all these cases, regulations had very little to do with who won the title.

Are we clear now?

:p
 
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