The Muslim vote

cleanbluesky · 24 Apr 2008 at 10:30

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7354227.stm

An article for those who believe that Islam has little influence over the UK

Tunney · 24 Apr 2008 at 10:33

London is a multicultural city. Always has been, always will be. Get over it.

cleanbluesky · 24 Apr 2008 at 10:45

Tunney said:
London is a multicultural city. Always has been, always will be. Get over it.

You're mistaken if you think this story is simply against multiculturalism.

Sankari · 24 Apr 2008 at 10:45

cleanbluesky said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7354227.stm

An article for those who believe that Islam has little influence over the UK

It does have little influence over the UK. At less than 3% of the population, Muslims represent a tiny religious minority.

In a fiercely contested race like the Mayorship of London, their vote will be courted for its propaganda value, not its impact on the outcome of elections (which is neligible).

DanH84 · 24 Apr 2008 at 10:45

lol 'rye amusement'

icey_haj · 24 Apr 2008 at 10:45

Is cleanbluesky trying to turn it into a muslim bashing thread?

cleanbluesky · 24 Apr 2008 at 10:55

icey_haj said:
Is cleanbluesky trying to turn it into a muslim bashing thread?

Relax, we love you guys...

magick · 24 Apr 2008 at 10:57

The muslim vote is insignificant just like everyone elses, because elections today are nothing more than an elaborate PR campaign. Our whole democracy is at best orchestrated and managed, if not totaly rigged for the desired outcome.

Spend_day · 24 Apr 2008 at 10:59

icey_haj said:
Is cleanbluesky trying to turn it into a muslim bashing thread?

WOOOO MUSLIM BASHING

only kidding

dont you just love the press if there's a story about muslims it is published even if it doesn't matter that much. might as well do a story about jews or hindus but nope its about muslims

Combat squirrel · 24 Apr 2008 at 10:59

Why does the bbc quote religious craziness?

"The creator knows all of us inside out, Muslim and non-Muslim. He knows how we can all lead a good life.

I just dont get how people continue to believe in such random stuff even in a world we understand so much better than many thousands of years ago

cleanbluesky · 24 Apr 2008 at 11:02

Combat squirrel said:
Why does the bbc quote religious craziness?

I just dont get how people continue to believe in such random stuff even in a world we understand so much better than many thousands of years ago

People find their safety in different ways. What's not appealing to the idea that everything is certain and written in a single book for convenience...

scorza · 24 Apr 2008 at 11:02

Tunney said:
London is a multicultural city. Always has been, always will be. Get over it.

I don't think it will always be so.

Makunouchi · 24 Apr 2008 at 11:03

cleanbluesky said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7354227.stm

An article for those who believe that Islam has little influence over the UK

Yes.... so what? There are 600 000 Muslims living in London according to that article, why shouldnt they be allowed to cast a vote along with the rest of us?

Over react much?

Edit: and if your beef is with the fact that they are being told by their religious leaders which way to vote, you think thats not going on in the christian churches as well? I saw a "christian choice" part broadcast on BBC the other day... thats religion getting directly involved with politics, much worse than this rubbish.

Dolph · 24 Apr 2008 at 11:16

Combat squirrel said:
Why does the bbc quote religious craziness?

I just dont get how people continue to believe in such random stuff even in a world we understand so much better than many thousands of years ago

We don't understand the world that much better, we can just predict the way it will behave better, and some people put faith in the mechanism that allows us to do so as being one that provides understanding, even though it was never designed to.

cleanbluesky · 24 Apr 2008 at 11:21

Dolph said:
We don't understand the world that much better, we can just predict the way it will behave better,

Same thing.

and some people put faith in the mechanism that allows us to do so as being one that provides understanding, even though it was never designed to.

The difference is the criteria for evidence, religious evidence is doctrine whereas scientific evidence is expected to be demonstrated (in the most). One operates on an absence of verifiable information whereas the other relies on it.

Dolph · 24 Apr 2008 at 11:23

cleanbluesky said:
Same thing.

No it isn't. Knowing the simplest way a result could have occured is not the same as knowing how it did occur.

The difference is the criteria for evidence, religious evidence is doctrine whereas scientific evidence is expected to be demonstrated (in the most). One operates on an absence of verifiable information whereas the other relies on it.

Which is entirely irrelevant to the point above. This is basic scientific method stuff regarding understanding what the application of unproveable assumptions means to the applicability of your results.

scorza · 24 Apr 2008 at 11:30

Makunouchi said:
Edit: and if your beef is with the fact that they are being told by their religious leaders which way to vote, you think thats not going on in the christian churches as well? I saw a "christian choice" part broadcast on BBC the other day... thats religion getting directly involved with politics, much worse than this rubbish.

What's so bad about Christian Choice that make them worse than "this rubbish"? From their website their policies in a nutshell are:

- Back families and marriage
- Reject the Olympics Mega Mosque
- More affordable homes
- End the culture of youth violence
- Tackle inequality with more jobs

Yup definitely a nasty extremist religious lot.

I presume you've actually been to Church and heard a vicar or priest tell his congregation to vote CC? It always amazes me how people know exactly what goes on in church despite never actually going

cleanbluesky · 24 Apr 2008 at 11:32

Dolph said:
No it isn't. Knowing the simplest way a result could have occured is not the same as knowing how it did occur.

Prediction requires a level of understanding (unless you're using the term understand to indicate 'meaning' although it is arguable whether anything has meaning beyond that which is directly observable or predictable). There is no guaruntee that we have full understanding, ever, but this is not what religion offers - in fact, it suggests that there are many things that we cannot understand.

Which is entirely irrelevant to the point above. This is basic scientific method stuff regarding understanding what the application of unproveable assumptions means to the applicability of your results.

Indeed - although in that context science and religion are merely competing ideas, one with a more reliable (as in repeatable) form of evidence than the other. Religion recognises this and therefore encourages followers to have a lower threshold of reliability for evidence.

Sankari · 24 Apr 2008 at 11:33

Combat squirrel said:
Why does the bbc quote religious craziness?

Er... because that's what the guy said when he was being interviewed. What do you want them to do, switch off the mike and explain that free speech is no longer permitted in Great Britain?

I just dont get how people continue to believe in such random stuff even in a world we understand so much better than many thousands of years ago

Neither do I, but that's humans for you.

Hey, it wasn't so long ago that people thought Communism was a REALLY GREAT IDEA(tm). And don't even get me started on the Objectivists. :rolleyes:

KNiVES · 24 Apr 2008 at 12:21

Evangelion said:
Er... because that's what the guy said when he was being interviewed. What do you want them to do, switch off the mike and explain that free speech is no longer permitted in Great Britain?

Neither do I, but that's humans for you.

Hey, it wasn't so long ago that people thought Communism was a REALLY GREAT IDEA(tm). And don't even get me started on the Objectivists.

Democracy was a pretty crazy idea too, look where's that gotten us !