Tesla, Electric Motor.

Dogbreath said:
How can they possibly deny it, it's built on the Elise production line isn't it?
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the chassis is a lengthened Elise, the shell and pretty much the rest of it is totally custom so ~90% is non-lotus.

Regradless i don't see why they don't brag about the lotus association, surely it can't be a bad thing (although maybe it is in the US?? not 100% stars and stripes etc.)

Battery wise if their 100k is right i wonder how much the total cost of ownership would compare over those 100k, the reduced servicing might well offset that.... assuming its lower as they state).
 
I dont think that running costs have all that much to do with whether people will buy them or not...

imagine your favourite supercar...now imagine it with a whisper quiet engine...
doesnt exactly how the same effect does it :p

a large chunk of the attraction of sporty cars is the noise, you can have all the performance you want, without the soundtrack to go along with it just wouldnt feel the same
 
Siliconslave said:
the chassis is a lengthened Elise, the shell and pretty much the rest of it is totally custom so ~90% is non-lotus.

Regradless i don't see why they don't brag about the lotus association, surely it can't be a bad thing (although maybe it is in the US?? not 100% stars and stripes etc.)

Battery wise if their 100k is right i wonder how much the total cost of ownership would compare over those 100k, the reduced servicing might well offset that.... assuming its lower as they state).
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Sorry, but there's a lot more lotus in there than that.

From what I can see there's the windscreen and surround, the AP racing brakes, the steering wheel and airbag, the seats are lotus ones in a different trim, the wing mirrors, some of the rear light lenses are VX220 ones, wiper is the same, roof seals, dash and vents, instrument binacle, dash display, roof brackets, seatbelts, hand brake mechanism, door locks, the doors themselves are reskinned lotus ones and the brake fluid reservoir is even the same. That's just from the stuff I can see in the pics!

It's an Elise with an electric motor.
 
Muncher said:
Sorry, but there's a lot more lotus in there than that.

From what I can see there's the windscreen and surround, the AP racing brakes, the steering wheel and airbag, the seats are lotus ones in a different trim, the wing mirrors, some of the rear light lenses are VX220 ones, wiper is the same, roof seals, dash and vents, instrument binacle, dash display, roof brackets, seatbelts, hand brake mechanism, door locks, the doors themselves are reskinned lotus ones and the brake fluid reservoir is even the same. That's just from the stuff I can see in the pics!

It's an Elise with an electric motor.
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Is that such a bad thing? Ive driven the VX220 which is essentially an Elise right? what fun...
 
VinceB1 said:
Is that such a bad thing? Ive driven the VX220 which is essentially an Elise right? what fun...
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No, it's a brilliant thing, but that's in response to suggestions there's not much Lotus in there. I see it as an Elise with a different engine, I really like the look of it (more than the S2 Elise), however to suggest Tesla are a new car maker is wide of the mark, they've just developed a motor and set of batteries to stick in another car.
 
Muncher said:
No, it's a brilliant thing, but that's in response to suggestions there's not much Lotus in there. I see it as an Elise with a different engine, I really like the look of it (more than the S2 Elise), however to suggest Tesla are a new car maker is wide of the mark, they've just developed a motor and set of batteries to stick in another car.
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From a little research there are also 2 family type cars on the way costing 30k USD and 20k USD.. I really should be working but well its friday :D
 
Siliconslave said:
the chassis is a lengthened Elise, the shell and pretty much the rest of it is totally custom so ~90% is non-lotus.

Regradless i don't see why they don't brag about the lotus association, surely it can't be a bad thing (although maybe it is in the US?? not 100% stars and stripes etc.)

Battery wise if their 100k is right i wonder how much the total cost of ownership would compare over those 100k, the reduced servicing might well offset that.... assuming its lower as they state).
Click to expand...



The chassis is simply a Europa S. Which has even lower door sills than an Elise S2. The rear subframe (which is a bolt-on to the chassis) is designed by Lotus specifically for the much higher weight that the Tesla has (batteries are very heavy). The suspension is pretty much identical to a Europa S. Interior is identical to a USA Elise. Seats are made by the same Norfolk folk as the Elise seats.

Lotus warned Tesla that the stiffness of the chassis would be severely compromised due to the weight of the battery packs and proposed a solution of making the battery pack a "stressed member" in the car. I.e. the battery is structurally integral to the chassis stiffness. This is the type of lateral thinking and thoroughbred idea that only Lotus (or a few other top car firms) would come up with. However Tesla decided it liked the idea so much that it adopted it as theirs and hence all their marketing materials and such like boast it as their idea, complete with all the Trademark symbol BS.

I'd say the car is about 15-20% made by Tesla and their other suppliers (i.e. batteries, motor, gear box), the rest is by Lotus.

Tesla made a huge blog post a few months ago discounting all association with Lotus. They reckoned the chassis was their design, the subframe was their design, etc etc etc. In fact the ONLY concession they made in this blog post was that the interior was straight from an Elise. And their reasoning for that was a rather crap "because it is functional and we didn't see any need to change or improve it".

Tesla is just a bunch of silicon valley geeks and venture capitalists. They know *nothing* about designing a car. All of their work is outsourced to other firms. I daresay even the battery and electric motor aren't actually designed or manufactured in any way by Tesla.

The clamshells are produced by the same French manufacturer that other Lotus clamshells are made by.

As you can tell, I really dislike the snobbery approach Tesla has taken to their marketing.

But despite all that... I still *really* like the car and hope it is successful.
 
NathanE said:
The chassis is simply a Europa S. Which has even lower door sills than an Elise S2. The rear subframe (which is a bolt-on to the chassis) is designed by Lotus specifically for the much higher weight that the Tesla has (batteries are very heavy). The suspension is pretty much identical to a Europa S. Interior is identical to a USA Elise. Seats are made by the same Norfolk folk as the Elise seats.

Lotus warned Tesla that the stiffness of the chassis would be severely compromised due to the weight of the battery packs and proposed a solution of making the battery pack a "stressed member" in the car. I.e. the battery is structurally integral to the chassis stiffness. This is the type of lateral thinking and thoroughbred idea that only Lotus (or a few other top car firms) would come up with. However Tesla decided it liked the idea so much that it adopted it as theirs and hence all their marketing materials and such like boast it as their idea, complete with all the Trademark symbol BS.

I'd say the car is about 15-20% made by Tesla and their other suppliers (i.e. batteries, motor, gear box), the rest is by Lotus.

Tesla made a huge blog post a few months ago discounting all association with Lotus. They reckoned the chassis was their design, the subframe was their design, etc etc etc. In fact the ONLY concession they made in this blog post was that the interior was straight from an Elise. And their reasoning for that was a rather crap "because it is functional and we didn't see any need to change or improve it".

Tesla is just a bunch of silicon valley geeks and venture capitalists. They know *nothing* about designing a car. All of their work is outsourced to other firms. I daresay even the battery and electric motor aren't actually designed or manufactured in any way by Tesla.

The clamshells are produced by the same French manufacturer that other Lotus clamshells are made by.

As you can tell, I really dislike the snobbery approach Tesla has taken to their marketing.

But despite all that... I still *really* like the car and hope it is successful.
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How much of a BMW do you actually think is made by BMW?
 
jamoor said:
How much of a BMW do you actually think is made by BMW?
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I think thats a different story to this, OEM manufacturers design components in conjunction with other suppliers a lot of the time, i.e. Fords joint venture with Getrag for the Powershift transmission, designed in part by Fords Product Development with Getrag. However the picture I'm getting from NathanE's post is that they've just tacked on a new shell and motor, completely using parts used and most probably designed in part by Lotus with their own suppliers, with the intention to be used with Lotus vehicles.
 
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NathanE said:
The chassis is simply a Europa S. Which has even lower door sills than an Elise S2.
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Isn't the wheelbase, track, height and ground clearance different?
NathanE said:
I'd say the car is about 15-20% made by Tesla and their other suppliers (i.e. batteries, motor, gear box), the rest is by Lotus.
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Can you post a link to this 15-20% claim? I'd say it was considerably higher than that, but you seem to know more about this car than I do so I'm prepared to stand corrected.
Incidentally, by your logic, all but the last few revisions of the Esprit wasn't a Lotus as precious little of it was made by them.
NathanE said:
The clamshells are produced by the same French manufacturer that other Lotus clamshells are made by.
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Why is that a problem?
When Ford built the RS200, did they build the clamshells themselves...or did they use Reliant who had more experience? When you're a very small volume manufacturer you tend to produce a minimal number of parts yourself and outsource the rest (or raid other manufacturers parts bins). It's the only way they can build cars.
 
markyp23 said:
These batteries last longer if they are allowed to have a full discharge and full charge every cycle.

Saying that, I doubt anyone wants to break down in order to preserve battery life. :)
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Nah, that's Ni-Cd batteries your thinking of I think, Li-ion batteries are better kept charged as much as possible.
 
NathanE said:
Lotus warned Tesla that the stiffness of the chassis would be severely compromised due to the weight of the battery packs and proposed a solution of making the battery pack a "stressed member" in the car. I.e. the battery is structurally integral to the chassis stiffness. This is the type of lateral thinking and thoroughbred idea that only Lotus (or a few other top car firms) would come up with. However Tesla decided it liked the idea so much that it adopted it as theirs and hence all their marketing materials and such like boast it as their idea, complete with all the Trademark symbol BS. If they originally went to Lotus for help and consulted them, it is their request to create this product and thus the ultimate customer of Lotus' efforts, why shouldnt they say its their design? LOTS of companies do this even though the motor press etc know different

I'd say the car is about 15-20% made by Tesla and their other suppliers (i.e. batteries, motor, gear box), the rest is by Lotus. Designed with Lotus and Built by Lotus, common knowledge, and I'm sure Lotus are getting paid well for their efforts. Again, with the size of Tesla as a company you cant blame them, Im glad they didnt put a shoddy badge on the side like a proton saying 'handling by lotus'

Tesla made a huge blog post a few months ago discounting all association with Lotus. They reckoned the chassis was their design, the subframe was their design, etc etc etc. In fact the ONLY concession they made in this blog post was that the interior was straight from an Elise. And their reasoning for that was a rather crap "because it is functional and we didn't see any need to change or improve it".THIS I can understand being annoying though!

Tesla is just a bunch of silicon valley geeks and venture capitalists. They know *nothing* about designing a car. All of their work is outsourced to other firms. I daresay even the battery and electric motor aren't actually designed or manufactured in any way by Tesla. You're right in that battery and motor arent manufactured by Tesla, they did however have design input. I wouldnt say they know NOTHING about designing a car, they've done well no?

The clamshells are produced by the same French manufacturer that other Lotus clamshells are made by. As said before, it is being built by Lotus
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I can tell you're pretty wound up by Tesla's marketing. But its not like they went and stole Lotus' ideas and ran off. :)

We could go as far as to say that the Volvo S40 is a Ford Focus with a new shell (which is pretty much is, same engine/chassis/transmission/parts). But Volvo will still market it as if its theirs.
 
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