Oh come on, it's widely recognised as being a good university. There's nothing shoddy about it.
Breaking news: the poor are thick
- Thread starter Johnny Girth
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Oh come on, it's widely recognised as being a good university. There's nothing shoddy about it.
Depends what your standards are, there is such an advantage for employment opportunities if you go to a proper top uni. I would personally not go to Newcastle uni, it's not good enough.
I had offers from York, UCL and King's and I decided to go to King's. I wouldn't have had any problem with going to Newcastle. I don't think it's just about standards but about how good the department is that you want. For instance, King's has the best law dept in the country [or it did in the late 90s] and Newcastle was very good for history. So it's not that black and white.
He was not referring to private vs state schooling at all. As someone who went to a top grammar school which gets better marks at a-level than eton, winchester, harrow... I feel my teaching was excellent and everyone got into top universities. (There still exists the separate issue of extra-curricular activities and facilities though).
The issue is about people from poor backgrounds and I'll admit there were not many of them at my school. The problem I feel is that due to poor parenting they are already behind at a much younger age and find it very difficult to catch up. This is combined with a working class culture which doesn't exactly prize academic achievement. The government's solution seems to be to put pressure on universities but this doesn't address the fundamental causes and does not represent a sustainable way to increase social mobility.
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There's no reason that you and your siblings would be of similar intelligence. That's like me saying that because I have a scientifically based brain and am rubbish at art, thus my sister must be rubbish too. Me and my sister are complete opposites in our preferred subjects. Just because you have the same parents doesn't at all mean you will have the same skills.
Environment encourages your thought processes for sure...so that you can make better use of your intelligence, but that's just like having someone who's body was built for sprinting, and because they were never pushed towards sport, they never discovered the 100m. There's a base level of intelligence you're born with, whether you are from a poor background or a rich one, it doesn't make a difference.
Soldato
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I'm smart, and I'm poor.
So what makes you working class then?
having a job??
So what makes you working class then?
having a job??
But for those that do go, I doubt they're looked down upon!
What percentage of London banking interns last year do you think came from Newcastle? It's an example of how industry can look down upon people. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with that, it's simply an example where it does happen.
No, but schooling is one of the reasons for the large gap that is sometimes present between the abilities of 18 year olds from the state system and those from the private system. Wealthy parents are much more likely to send their children to such schools.
You are right though about working class culture not encouraging academic achievement.
Top quarter of how many hundreds of useless ex-polytechnics?
So do you agree or disagree with Dr Charlton?
There are so many causes and reasons for it, but it does largely fall to parenting, definitely one of the key problems.
@ParadoX
The simple answer is Yes of course it is True but then the Rich have developed a system where by there off spring do much better within our currrent economical structure.
This does Not make them more intelligent though !!!
The simple answer is Yes of course it is True but then the Rich have developed a system where by there off spring do much better within our currrent economical structure.
This does Not make them more intelligent though !!!
Still doesn't change the original hypothesis of the guy that the poor have lower IQs though (I don't equate IQ with intelligence to be honest)...
I went to a state school with a lot of working class people and I have to agree with the others who say it is mostly down to parenting. My parents taught me lots before I went to school, and always encouraged me to do well, the same could be said for my best friend throughout school who came from a similar financial background. We were always top of the class and when it came to university, it was a case of wherever we wanted to go, not who would take us.
In contrast, many of the kids from poorer backgrounds seemed to be ignored at home as far as grades were concerned. I had one friend who was one of three children from a single parent home, and his mum wanted to work but as a result they had very little money. I think he was the only person I went to school with from his area (or type of area) who actually went to uni and made something of himself. It was actually expected of his family to drop out at 16 and start having kids, which his cousin in my year did.
In contrast, many of the kids from poorer backgrounds seemed to be ignored at home as far as grades were concerned. I had one friend who was one of three children from a single parent home, and his mum wanted to work but as a result they had very little money. I think he was the only person I went to school with from his area (or type of area) who actually went to uni and made something of himself. It was actually expected of his family to drop out at 16 and start having kids, which his cousin in my year did.
Caporegime
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You're simply describing two bad doctors in a case which isn't one or the other. You can have a doctor who got 100% on his exams and he's got fantastic bedside manner, that would be a good doctor. Well infact he wouldn't. Exams are easier than they used to be, yes, even for medicine at uni, seeing as my family work with hundreds of people in the NHS and my dad is personal friends with several of the people who run most of the schools of medicine in London and thats their opinion, not mine. Doctors don't have to take hundreds of courses and refresher info if they don't want to. Neither do they have to specialise in the hardest subjects or learn an entire books information to pass an exam on the book. THe best doctors are those who read all the going information because they want to be great doctors, and not those that read who want to do great on the exam.
Give two people a text book, lets say a huge 1000 page small print a4 sized thing with shedloads of info. one person could get 50% on an exam set to test on that book, while the other guy can get 100%, that in no way means the guy who got 100% knows more info, he simply knew the right info from the book. These days thats all exam taking is, extremely narrow focus learning, learning only whats required on the exam, nothing more. Those that learn more, because they want to will always have a better knowledge frankly.
Inteligence has nothing to do with much except luck. My dad is pretty smart, my mum, in all fairness, isn't the sharpest tool though she isn't stupid either. I have a very high IQ and school, such as it is, was a complete breeze for me. We aren't rich in any way and the genetic pool i came from isn't exactly superior either.
As people have mentioned, Inteligence has nothing to do with knowledge or your ability to do better in a job than other people. Being inteligent in simple terms I guess indicates it should be easier and faster for your to learn the same information than someone who is less inteligent, it does not in any way mean someone less inteligent can't learn the same information though. if you don't put the effort into learning, a "stupid" person could do far better than an "inteligent" person.
Einstein said something along the lines of
"All that is valuable in human society depends upon the opportunity for development accorded the individual."
Not quite what i was looking for but makes a point still. People, inteligent and or stupid people, that get the chance to go to a private school with better teachers and harder work, are more likely to learn more than inteligent or stupid people who go to crap schools with little work asked of them.
I was actually looking for a quote I think was Einsteins that said something like A Genius isn't measured by his knowledge, but his ability to pick up knowledge. Which is about my thoughts on inteligence. Yet another quote from him he talks about inteligent people who read to much lose the ability to think for themselves. To a certain degree education is to spoon fed, we learn knowledge more than we gain it if you see what I'm getting it. Rather than finding our own way to lots of answers we are simply told and remember them. Which when you get out of education makes it harder later in life to solve things yourself.