2008 Monaco GP - Race 6/18

[dannyjo22]

Yes because he is British, is that a problem?

Not from me but as a non hamilton fan, it seems to be more of an issue with people on here thinking people should support him because he is british.

Why?

Why should I support a driver purely because he's british.

I'm not knocking him because it's fashionable to knock a british driver, I just don't like him and I don't much rate him. I don't much rate any of the current crop though.

 

[JRS]

This of any interest to y'all?

This guy has the '84 Monaco race up on Youtube. Another wet one. Senna's very first Monaco race, horrendous weather, and he could have won it. In a Toleman. Sort-of puts Hamilton's rookie year (him being in one of the top two cars, rather than 7th best if you go by the '84 Constructors Championship) into perspective....

 

[FrankJH]

And the commentary has done several times already this year. Take Bahrain - the normally reliable Brundle was opining that Alonso had brake tested Lewis and caused that bump. Didn't really look that way to be honest, once you look at the onboard replays. But Martin is a former F1 driver, he usually knows the score..

Martin also apologised during the Bahrain commentary after seeing the replays that it probably wasnt a break test - maybe he shouldnt have mentioned it at first but in the heat of the moment it did look like that, personally think he couldnt have done anything different


In respect to Monaco - Lewis did the hard work during his 2nd phase, yes he made one little mistake (which wouldnt have mattered around any other circuit) and that cost him time, but he completely hammered the Ferrari's - and seemingly according to him without trying that hard (whether thats just mind tricks or actual truth is something else) he drove a fantastic race

Remember also before his tapping of the barrier, the next car behind him was 10 seconds down the road, and Lewis didnt loose that much time due to where the incident happened, so it was a bit of luck and otherwise you cant really blame him for not losing more places - everyone else was just too slow!!!

Force India did remarkablly, and personally think Ferrari owe them a HUGE check, not only for the damage but for how much the points will cost the team. May be nothing to Ferrari, but to a tiny team it would be a lifeline

Personally think R/Ferrari should be penalised, maybe it would have been a little harsh, but I really feel gutted for FI

Hamilton needs to really dominate the two North American races coming up (preferably two wins, but a win and a podium will do), the other possibility is if neither Ferrari driver gets too many of the points, otherwise he could be in trouble before the return to Europe

 

[FrankJH]

Disagree. I don't think Kimi was at all to blame for the collision with Sutil towards the end. It was a racing incident, he was pushing hard and his rear tyres weren't warm enough and he came off almost exactly in the same place as DC did the day before. If you watch a replay you can see him fighting in vain to try and stop the collision from happening.

If anyone should be investigated for shonky driving it should be Alonso. Trying to overtake Heidfeld on Lowes was never going to work in a million years and he pretty much scuppered his chances for the afternoon.

You trying to compare a Red Bull to a Ferrari?

Kimi should have had better control of his car, yes it was a tricky part of the track but rookies had been doing better all day, kimi was pushing too hard and got it completely wrong - simple as that, and someone else paid the bigger penalty

 

[NathanE]

But to say that Hamilton's race was a Senna-esque performance? I disagree.

A Senna-esque performance isn't necessarily about the driving. Although that was very good on Sunday but it wasn't the key to making it a great performance. It is about the pantomime of it all. The fact that Hamilton "crashed" and made it up later in the race to win it. This is a story that most people would associate with either Senna, Prost or Schumacher.

The great races in history always have some story to tell. They were never just boring processional races (because they did exist back then albeit in a less extreme form than we have today).

You can't make it up... Hamilton crashes and still wins. Meanwhile his immediate rivals are having major offs and incidents and crashes. It's no wonder that his win is being spinned as Senna-esque to be honest.

 

[clv101]

Kimi should have had better control of his car, yes it was a tricky part of the track but rookies had been doing better all day, kimi was pushing too hard and got it completely wrong - simple as that, and someone else paid the bigger penalty

Yeah, I have no sympathy for KR. He screwed up, like many people that day, but that's not an excuse.

 

[JRS]

Martin also apologised during the Bahrain commentary after seeing the replays that it probably wasnt a break test - maybe he shouldnt have mentioned it at first but in the heat of the moment it did look like that, personally think he couldnt have done anything different

True. Before I saw it again, I had to wonder whether or not Alonso was fully on the loud pedal. But after seeing it on-board, it was clear exactly what was going on.

Still, was amusing seeing the outraged posts on here in the Bahrain race thread

Personally think R/Ferrari should be penalised, maybe it would have been a little harsh, but I really feel gutted for FI

Punished for losing his car under braking?

Better punish Fisi for his first lap crunch in Turkey as well then!

***edit***

Meanwhile his immediate rivals are having major offs and incidents and crashes. It's no wonder that his win is being spinned as Senna-esque to be honest.

One of his current rivals in the points standings (Kimi) was having major offs, incidents and crashes (actually, he was tending to have all three at the same time). The other two (Massa and Kubica) had fairly uneventful days in the end.

 

[NathanE]

True. Before I saw it again, I had to wonder whether or not Alonso was fully on the loud pedal. But after seeing it on-board, it was clear exactly what was going on.

No it wasn't? The TV cameras didn't show Hamilton doing the initial damage to his front wing. It was only revealed after the race exactly what had happened. Not even McLaren knew what had happened so how you can rise up and do an Iraqi Information Minister on us is quite perplexing.

 

[penski]

Occasional spin?? The last wet Monaco GP in 97 had 10 classified finishers, the one previous to that in 96 had 7 and only 4 of those were actually running at the flag.

Monaco in the rain is just carnage, manhole covers and road markings get really nasty when they're wet.

As I predicted: a parade with the occasional spin and the outcome dictated by pit stops/driver errors.

Absolutely gutted for sutil though

*n

 

[JRS]

No it wasn't? The TV cameras didn't show Hamilton doing the initial damage to his front wing. It was only revealed after the race exactly what had happened. Not even McLaren knew what had happened so how you can rise up and do an Iraqi Information Minister on us is quite perplexing.

Well, it didn't look like Alonso slowed up....and Hamilton went into him at a good rate of knots....so what were the possibilities? It was the wrong type of corner for him to get a 'natural' run at Alonso like that, which is why everyone instantly jumped on it saying that Alonso must have backed off/braked. But it didn't really look like that once looked at again.

Saying "exactly" was a poor choice of words I grant you.

 

[NathanE]

I can tell you why everyone jumped on the braketest bandwagon... It's because the video footage was being shown from the viewpoint of Hamilton's car. It's an optical illusion. It's like when you're sitting in your car at traffic lights and a car next to you moves forward. Sometimes you might think your car has rolled backwards... The same effect is what convinced many people Alonso did a brake test. Because the camera viewpoint was from Hamilton's car then everything moves relative to that and in fact it is difficult to track the speed/acceleration of the fixed viewpoint.

 

[FrankJH]

You can't make it up... Hamilton crashes and still wins. Meanwhile his immediate rivals are having major offs and incidents and crashes. It's no wonder that his win is being spinned as Senna-esque to be honest.

Massa didnt have a major off though - he lost a few seconds down the off road on the first corner, nothing major in that at all imo (happens several times each year even in the dry)

Massa was on it during quali - he just didnt have the race pace in the tricky conditions

 

[FrankJH]

Punished for losing his car under braking?

Better punish Fisi for his first lap crunch in Turkey as well then!.

No because a Force India car is in no way comparable to a Ferrari - let alone car control skills Kimi does have when it suits him compared to when he is being a clumsy oaf!!!

(Fisi was always a fair weather driver, he lucked into a few decent cars in his time but he is average at best)

Kimi has proved in the past he is better than that, I think we can all agree that Kimi wasnt helped in any way shape or form where he was, all or nothing move suited him down to the ground

I can tell you why everyone jumped on the braketest bandwagon... It's because the video footage was being shown from the viewpoint of Hamilton's car. It's an optical illusion. It's like when you're sitting in your car at traffic lights and a car next to you moves forward. Sometimes you might think your car has rolled backwards... The same effect is what convinced many people Alonso did a brake test. Because the camera viewpoint was from Hamilton's car then everything moves relative to that and in fact it is difficult to track the speed/acceleration of the fixed viewpoint.

Very good point - the acceleration difference just looked incredible (plus the damage caused of course) but being partly an optical illusion makes sense

Not sure if I ever saw a replay from outside the car or not so its hard to appreciate what it could have looked like from an external view point

 

[JRS]

No because a Force India car is in no way comparable to a Ferrari

Other than them having the same engine.

 

[FrankJH]

Other than them having the same engine.

There is no engine braking this year - so its more about aero dynamics and other properties of the actual tub , rather than the engine

 

[ChrisD.]

****** James Allen, I hate the man. Using Senna's name in vain I'm afraid, banging on about how great Hamilton is, yet he was out qualified by Massa, a distinctly average F1 driver in a good car... and Lewis whacks the barrier too. Very Senna-esq... NOT.

Lewis drove a great middle stint, but driver of the weekend for the second year in succession has to be Adrian Sutil. Last year in the Thursday practice it rained, and who topped the time sheets? Sutil. This year it rains again and who flies up the field... Sutil. Now that's a Senna like performance.

 

[NathanE]

Massa didnt have a major off though - he lost a few seconds down the off road on the first corner, nothing major in that at all imo (happens several times each year even in the dry)

Massa was on it during quali - he just didnt have the race pace in the tricky conditions

Massa lost the race the moment he locked up on the wet stuff and almost hit the wall. He recovered it well but it cost him a vital place to Kubica and lost him ~5 seconds or more. His strategy went out the window as soon as he lost that place to Kubica.

Ferrari were awesome in qually yes. But ultimately McLaren had the pace in the treacherous conditions. This is what racing is about.

 

[JRS]

There is no engine braking this year

I do wish folks would stop saying that.

Yes, there is engine braking. You get engine braking in any car. Come off the loud pedal, allowing the speed to drop, changing down gears as you go. Engine braking.

What they don't have any more is the systems that effectively gave them rear-wheel ABS - which applied some power to the rears under braking and downshifting to keep them turning, thus allowing the car to slow down with a lot more stability.

 

[NathanE]

a distinctly average F1 driver in a good car... and Lewis whacks the barrier too. Very Senna-esq... NOT.

Because Senna never made any mistakes did he? And Senna never made any mistakes and then went on to win the race, did he?

The comparisons to Senna really aren't all that far fetched to be honest. The problem is that Senna has become almost an mythical untouchable figure and people just don't like having a living and modern day racing driver compared to him.

 

[ChrisD.]

To continue my rant, ITV's F1 coverage IS the Lewis Hamilton show. Why they keep interviewing Lewis's dad I don't know, he says the same **** every race. Roll on BBC coverage, and hopefully something which isn't hugely biased (e.g. Martin/Allen presuming Alonso lifted off earlier this season; Presumption that Heikki is faster because he's got less fuel etc etc. I tear my hair out at the stupid, ignorant and downright biased commentary they currently turn out. It's actually worse than the brown nosing of Liverpool and Man Utd in the Champions league coverage (and the reason they're the only teams on ITV1 is because they have a larger fan base...).

ITV suck.