England vs USA and T&T *Spoilers*
- Thread starter Ripper
- Start date
We have too many optional midfielders!:
Lampard
Barry
Carrick
Hargreaves.
Although a chelsea fan lampard doesnt work as well as a Defensive Midfielder IMO. Right now i think its a question of Hargreaves or Barry. Despite all of Barry's performances i cant help but think of hargreaves recent performances.
Also downing was very good tonight.
Lampard
Barry
Carrick
Hargreaves.
Although a chelsea fan lampard doesnt work as well as a Defensive Midfielder IMO. Right now i think its a question of Hargreaves or Barry. Despite all of Barry's performances i cant help but think of hargreaves recent performances.
Also downing was very good tonight.
Caporegime
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I've been very impressed with Barry since Capello became manager and think he's done more than enough to warrant a place in the team.
As well as he's done, Carrick and Hargreaves are both better players and would both do better jobs.
Caporegime
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He might not have the passing ability of Carrick or the stamina and work rate of Hargreaves but he scores more and creates more than both of them put together.
Carrick had one of the best tackling records in Europe last year IIRC with figures that embarassed Essien for example. It was on SSN.
Carrick doesn't get enough credit for his defensive work, it's something he does brilliantly well and as you say, he has a greater range of passing.
Hargreaves is a better all round player as he displayed in the Champions League final where he played the role of Defensive Midfielder AND Right Winger. He has endless energy, and since his gotten over his Tendonitis problem he's been bloody fantastic, really made me eat my words on his earlier performances.
lol.
I would agree to an extent with what Gilly has said though. Carrick's better on the ball and Hargreaves offers more defensively where as Barry falls somewhere in the middle of the 2. It would be hard to leave Barry out though considering his performances since he was first given his chance.
Seems to alternate between him and Lampard at the moment. At least one of them tries their hardest to be the worst player on the pitch when they play for England.
I remember the rugby world cup just last year, squad was poor and morale was low, but they pulled together and did well in the competition. I just can't ever see our footballers doing something like that. Don't know whether it is just a general footballers mentality or something but they don't seem proud to play for their country. The only people I see who are, are Beckham and Hargreaves and to some extent Owen, they all seem to proud to play for England.
Has Gerrard put in enough below par performances now for him to be considered to be not all that great?
I've seen for myself how he's dragged his team (mainly at club level tbh) single-handedly to victory through his drive and sheer will to win (he has done it in big games as well to be fair). I've seen him score many great goals (again, in some very important games).
But at what point do consistent underwhelming performances become more than just poor form? 2 years ago he'd have walked into any top european side, probably based on what he'd done for his club alone as even then he wasn't setting the world on fire for England. Now I don't know that he would, I certainly don't see enough from him to make me think he's clearly on another level to the rest of our top midfielders.
I'm not by any means saying he isn't a quality player, but while his standing in world football is as one of the great midfielders, is he doing enough (and often enough) to justify his place in that class? To take Keane and Vieira as two recent examples, they were true midfield greats of their time and more often than not, that was the performance you got from them.
I don't know, maybe I don't really see enough of Gerrard to give a fair reflection, but I'm not hearing of him dominating games anywhere near as often as I think I would expect to.
I've seen for myself how he's dragged his team (mainly at club level tbh) single-handedly to victory through his drive and sheer will to win (he has done it in big games as well to be fair). I've seen him score many great goals (again, in some very important games).
But at what point do consistent underwhelming performances become more than just poor form? 2 years ago he'd have walked into any top european side, probably based on what he'd done for his club alone as even then he wasn't setting the world on fire for England. Now I don't know that he would, I certainly don't see enough from him to make me think he's clearly on another level to the rest of our top midfielders.
I'm not by any means saying he isn't a quality player, but while his standing in world football is as one of the great midfielders, is he doing enough (and often enough) to justify his place in that class? To take Keane and Vieira as two recent examples, they were true midfield greats of their time and more often than not, that was the performance you got from them.
I don't know, maybe I don't really see enough of Gerrard to give a fair reflection, but I'm not hearing of him dominating games anywhere near as often as I think I would expect to.
Associate
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Haven't we tried both of those in an England shirt? Personally I would prefer Hargreaves to Carrick, who is over-rated. Barry seems to be worth his place at the moment.
it does not really matter in the strictest sense who is better out of barry, hargreaves and carrick since it is how they function in the team that matters most. whilst carrick in particular has not had a chance, barry has been the one to make the most of his opportunity. and you can hardly say it is not deserved given his past treatment by england selectors. he has been england's best player over the last year.
although we might question the links between barry being so key for england during a seemingly dark period for the england team.
barry might not have the guile of carrick but he does not shy away from the ball, which i think has cemented his place there or thereabouts.
incidentally, if he goes to liverpool to play left wing i think they will ruin him and he will not be seen in his best light. think he should wait for the offer from arsenal, assuming they follow up their interest.
although we might question the links between barry being so key for england during a seemingly dark period for the england team.
barry might not have the guile of carrick but he does not shy away from the ball, which i think has cemented his place there or thereabouts.
incidentally, if he goes to liverpool to play left wing i think they will ruin him and he will not be seen in his best light. think he should wait for the offer from arsenal, assuming they follow up their interest.
Both Gerrard and Lampard play to a World Class standard week in week out for their clubs, as soon as they put on an England shirt they turn into tripe. Its not just them though, everyone who does is the same (well, with the exception of Beckham, as he plays every game as if its his last), its as if the England shirt is a curse.
I would agree to an extent with what Gilly has said though. Carrick's better on the ball and Hargreaves offers more defensively where as Barry falls somewhere in the middle of the 2. It would be hard to leave Barry out though considering his performances since he was first given his chance.
I can't disagree, but likewise, Carrick hasn't been given the chance in a role that's made for him and Hargreaves was the star of the National team before his tendonitis problems, and his recent performances for Man Utd are that good it makes you wonder if he can be kept out.
Drop Lampard and Gerrard for Hargreaves and Carrick. Hargreaves, Carrick and Barry all play. Problem solved.
Ah, Carrick overrated? Despite being our first choice CM, winning the EPL two seasons running and the Champions League.
In 2 seasons he's surpassed what Gerrard has done in his career, same for Lampard.