Obama vs Mccain

You're joking right? White people are a minority in these states - the blacks will be out in force for Obama in the south, mark my words.

I'm really not sure about Mccain or Obama... and not sure where I stand. I really hope "the blacks" don't just vote him because he is black, (chip on the shoulder/compensation or whatever) - he's better than that. This being said, he's a bit of a tool at times.

Course he doesn't - that's why he's had more donations that McCain and Hilary isn't it?
Exactly.
 
I'm really not sure about Mccain or Obama... and not sure where I stand. I really hope "the blacks" don't just vote him because he is black, (chip on the shoulder/compensation or whatever) - he's better than that. This being said, he's a bit of a tool at times.


Exactly.
To be honest a lot of black people will vote for him because hes black. But really this shouldnt be the way its done its just fact. I like what he stands for and if I was america I would vote for him. Its going to be a tuff race thats for sure and at the moment I dont see him winning.
 
To be honest a lot of black people will vote for him because hes black. But really this shouldnt be the way its done its just fact. I like what he stands for and if I was america I would vote for him. Its going to be a tuff race thats for sure and at the moment I dont see him winning.

What does he stand for? :confused:
 
Is the deep south not his main area of voters ?

Nope like the people down there are going to vote for him because he is black.

You're joking right? White people are a minority in these states - the blacks will be out in force for Obama in the south, mark my words.

So? still means he isn't going to win the southern states.
 
Course he doesn't - that's why he's had more donations that McCain and Hilary isn't it?

Lol, the reason why he has raised so much money is because he inspires his supporters and they want to help his campaign:

He has had by far the most individual donors - over 600,000 as of january

When it was disclosed that Hillary Clinton loaned $5 million of her own money to her campaign, Obama's supporters donated over $6.5 million in less than 24 hours.

Of the $55 million raised in February $45 million of it was contributed over the Internet—without Obama hosting a single fund-raiser.

Yes businesses have supported him too, but only because they know he is so popular, not because he has been pandering to them.

As of december, McCain was using 32 lobbyists as fundraisers, more than any other candidate. Do you think lobbyists spend their time trying to get individuals to donate on the internet or talking to businesses?

Obama's vocal support for Israel is worrying. :(

You've probably seen the one article on the bbc that was about an event hosted by the pro-israel lobby. He has actually been criticised for being pro-iran and the leader of Hamas once said he liked mr obama! He was there to try and assure the pro-israelis that he wasn't against them and made various uncontroversial statements that any agreement with palestine must preserve israel as a state etc.
 
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Again change... that means nothing. What kind of change, what does he want to change it to?
Ok instead of others that cant Google the answers them self’s.....

Basically the 2 points I like him for
One. Obama wants to change the health service/system in the states (which is needed). As I'm not American this does not affect me but after seeing first hand how much some people pay for there health insurance to which they dont get a lot is shocking and needs change.


Two. He doesn’t want war in Iraq and would like to pull out as soon as possible. This affects the UK as we are there. We already want to pull our troops out because its costing to much money and lifes but as longs as the Americans are there I cant see it being any time soon.



One thing I'm unsure about thou is Obama and Iran. I don’t know enough about this but he wants to talk to Iran which sounds good but I would like to know what about. Hopefully its to solve the problems of late and improve relations but I hope not giving in to much. It would be nice if it could be settled without the bush style lets go to war.
 
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Obama doesn't pander to big business. He does not accept donations from federal lobbyists or political action committees whereas McCain does. McCain wants to make permanent Bush's tax cuts for the rich whereas Obama wants to put them back or above where they were to help fund universal healthcare which is something McCain or Bush would never do in a million years. McCain's policy on iraq is the same as Bush's whereas Obama wants to pull out and was one of the few against the war before it started.

this is exactly why McCain won't be laughed out as president, while Obama will. You realise EVERYTHING Obama could possibly do needs to be passed in the house, with all the people being told how to vote by those lobbyists. Obama's burned all his bridges that would let him get anything done, before he even gets in.

YOu don't seem to understand that, you HAVE TO, without question, have lobbyists support to get anything done. You either work with big business and try and get some useful stuff done on the side, and keep the economy semi strong by keeping big business going. Or you work against the lobbyists and big business, get nothing of your own passed, hurt your party, have the lobbyists hate the democrates more for the next decade, make it harder for democrates to get re-elected and make it easy for a much more hard line republican to get in power next time around.

THis is REALITY, not fantasy land where some lovely change wanting president comes in, sorts out renewable power in 5 years and makes world peace.

Obama is LYING about Iraq, 6 months ago it was "i'll pull out as soon as possible, first thing i'm in charge" his site how has his own quotes where he says he HOPES to be out be 2012.

McCain wants out of Iraq to a degree, but isn't simply lying to the public about when it will happen. Now Obama is going on about, ok, so it will probably be a scaled withdrawal so people aren't in danger, a safe slow 2-3 year long withdrawal. McCain simply didn't lie to look good and promise to leave instantly, because it would be physically impossible to pull out that quickly and now Obama seems to realise this and is not sayign anything like he was about leaving Iraq.

Obama seconded the bill to put trade embargoes on certain companies in Iran and the bill names their loyal liberation army (or whatever its called thats something along those lines) a terrorist organisation. Its fairly clear that almost any president will take the same action in the middle east it always has and most likely that force massing in Iran will be bombed the crap out of no matter who is in charge.

AT the end of the day, you either work with the rest of the government, or against it. Who do you think will get more done, Mr ridiculous changes promised where when you look at his promises simply none are even remotely possible.

25% energy to come from renewable sources or something he wants, will never in a million years happen. Wind, water, solar, you know how little power those provide right now, it would take trillions upon trillions and a massive amount of production, which is simply not possible at this time to do that.

I think the exaggerated and funny example is, solar panels are current efficiency would need to cover ARIZONA to power the USA. yet every solar panel ever made together would cover about 0.05% of Arizona and that would cost billions. That was some years ago, but you get the idea, solar/wind/water is just not doable on large scale yet as you simply need space for these things to take up and manufacturing to build the stuff of which we won't have for decades.

All his other promises for change are as pie in the ski BS aswell. He's the complete joke candidate, what he wants to happen is all very well and good, but most of its literally impossible, and what is possible he won't get done because he's already angered most of the people he needs to have any chance of doing anything.
 
this is exactly why McCain won't be laughed out as president, while Obama will. You realise EVERYTHING Obama could possibly do needs to be passed in the house, with all the people being told how to vote by those lobbyists. Obama's burned all his bridges that would let him get anything done, before he even gets in.

YOu don't seem to understand that, you HAVE TO, without question, have lobbyists support to get anything done. You either work with big business and try and get some useful stuff done on the side, and keep the economy semi strong by keeping big business going. Or you work against the lobbyists and big business, get nothing of your own passed, hurt your party, have the lobbyists hate the democrates more for the next decade, make it harder for democrates to get re-elected and make it easy for a much more hard line republican to get in power next time around.

This is the reason I dont think Obama will get into power as DrunkMoney has said. Without the internal and Lobbyists support he is unlikey to get into power simple. And if he got into power and still didnt have there support he would find it impossble to get anything done. I like Obama just dont think he will get into power.
 
^^ you guys should let Obama know and he may just drop out now :).

can lobbyist support not change if he got into power? Surely been president comes with some power of it's own.
 
Ok instead of others that cant Google the answers them self’s.....

Basically the 2 points I like him for
One. Obama wants to change the health service/system in the states (which is needed). As I'm not American this does not affect me but after seeing first hand how much some people pay for there health insurance to which they dont get a lot is shocking and needs change.


Two. He doesn’t want war in Iraq and would like to pull out as soon as possible. This affects the UK as we are there. We already want to pull our troops out because its costing to much money and lifes but as longs as the Americans are there I cant see it being any time soon.



One thing I'm unsure about thou is Obama and Iran. I don’t know enough about this but he wants to talk to Iran which sounds good but I would like to know what about. Hopefully its to solve the problems of late and improve relations but I hope not giving in to much. It would be nice if it could be settled without the bush style lets go to war.


See, almost everything here, is completely incorrect. He's now hoping to be fully withdrawn from Iraq by 2012, instant withdrawal will never happen. Even Clinton knew it wouldn't be that quick and was saying 18 months to get out, and that was a very overly optimistic estimate, Obama was naive when he said he would pull out straight away and has since back tracked very very fast on that.

As for health care, the countries been moving towards the NHS style system for a while, its been talked about a lot for several years but would always take a long time to implement, essentially you'd need to stockpile cash for several years before you could get it up and running and massive spending to get it up and running. This isn't an Obama thing, this is, what was gonna happen anyway, no matter who was in charge.

THere was nowt wrong with their system anyway, they just let HMO's get in an abuse it. You can privately pay $2000 a year for top of the line private health insurance and get WAY better treatment than the uk, save $2000 a year and risk it, or, if you're a complete twit spend $1000 on an HMO, don't read the contract, don't realise you are paying a heck of a lot for incredibly limited cover and get completely screwed time and time again. Here we simply get taxed whatever, thats all they are doing, essentially making the optional private insurance cover $2000 a normal tax that everyone has to pay, but it will be in a heavily overused system.

Think of it more like, say the NHS here, very very few buy private health insurance as its expensive and why bother when its free. Now most people get fairly crap service, if we were taxed lower, and had the option to pay for private health insurance, but due to lower taxes overall the cost dropped compared to before a far higher percentage of the population would get it, this would spread the load of patients between private/nhs hospitals much better than it currently does.

Neither way is perfect, if it wasn't for the HMO's which is the biggest issue in America, their system wouldn't be so bad. They should have stopped insurance companies being able to effect treatment anywhere near as much as they do.


ANyway, this is still nothing for Obama, both their NHS and pulling out of Iraq are inevitable no matter whose in charge, bombing Iran's "terrorist army" is highly likely by whoever is in charge, and the rest of Obama's platform is such ridiculous wishful thinking I'd be having Obama submitted for drugs testing.
 
Obama seconded the bill to put trade embargoes on certain companies in Iran and the bill names their loyal liberation army (or whatever its called thats something along those lines) a terrorist organisation. Its fairly clear that almost any president will take the same action in the middle east it always has and most likely that force massing in Iran will be bombed the crap out of no matter who is in charge.

Err you have got your facts wrong. The Kyl-Lieberman Iran amendment which was the one that labelled the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps a terrorist organization was not seconded by Obama. He was not there to vote as he was campaigning but stated that he would have voted against it. This was a big issue because Hillary voted for it. A quote from fox news:

Obama and other critics claim the amendment still contains language that the Bush administration could use as justification for war.
 
^^ you guys should let Obama know and he may just drop out now :).

can lobbyist support not change if he got into power? Surely been president comes with some power of it's own.

nope, the president can introduce bills, so can the other side, both need to pass and voting for presidental bills is only useful if he has power to push through anything he wants. He won't have this power, big business simply pays lobbyists to wine, dine, and guarentee millions of dollars a year jobs for the right votes. You can not get anything done in washington without support, you do NOT need to be president to get a bill passed. The biggest "power move" the President can make that no one else can, is he can veto I believe any bill he wants, his or ones from the other side, however this is the ball game, if you shoot down every single bill the other side submits, then they'll simply vote no on all of your bills.

The president is only marginally more powerful than other political people these days, and by using his veto power, he normally hurts himself more than harms himself. His best shot at change and hurting big business is just to veto every single last bill in the house, nothing will get worse, nothing will get better either though.
 
Err you have got your facts wrong. The Kyl-Lieberman Iran amendment which was the one that labelled the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps a terrorist organization was not seconded by Obama. He was not there to vote as he was campaigning but stated that he would have voted against it. This was a big issue because Hillary voted for it. A quote from fox news:

WEll I read it on Obama's site so...............

http://factcheck.barackobama.com/

about 1/4 of the way down, under Response to McCain attack on Iran. His site says he consponsored the bill to do this. I'm not saying its wrong, he's probably right here, but again I'm saying, this is just another situation where he's no different to McCain or any other president. He isn't some peace loving twit, he will take exactly the same action anyone else would take, if those guys need taking out(sounds more and more likely) he'll make the same decision as anyone else.

This idea that he's a free thinking, anti war, peace loving, change bringing candidate is ridiculous. On all the main issues he'll do same as everyone else, all his proposed changes for the future, are literally impossible to bring about, its america, its run by the guys with money, not the guy who could veto bills but won't. IT simply will not matter whose in charge to a large degree. However McCain, in working with the rest of the people in washington rather than flipping them the middle finger, is more likely to be able to add in some small changes for the good along with everything else. Obama just has no chance of that at all.
 
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Mcain= 4 more years of Bush'isms, which make me laugh

Also, listen to McCain, and think of the "Sunscreen" track, lol, ITS HIMMMM!!!!!

Also, nice background, with Obama's slogan on it?, he got panned by the media for his **** poor speech.
 
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