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4870 and 4850 info

~>Dg<~ said:
crysis like anyone plays it :p we all on cod 4 lolz

is this 4850 ok with pci 1.0a 15th time asked but noones said.:(
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I'm pretty sure it will be. There a lot of boards out there with PCI-E 1.0 so ATI won't want to cut their profits.

RoEy
 
Greebo said:
Yeah but so are a lot of others on that basis then to explain their poor framerates. And what makes you think future games are going to be any better coded? Some are (COD4) but a lot aren't cause it's cheaper to get us to buy better hardware than the developers to spend months improving the code.

For example.

The Witcher - great game, great(ish) graphics.

1680 x 1050 on my pc as per sig with everything on highest setting I get 60 fps with 16xAF and 2xAA.

If I change to 16xaa I get 8-15 fps.

So a 40% boost will get me 12 - 21 fps - still not playable with everything on max.

A lot of people game at even higher resolutions.

I could go on and on with a list of games which won't run at playable framerates with 16xaa/af at 1680 x 1050 (Supreme Commander turns into a slide show)

Yes, turn down the AA I hear you say but why should we? It's there so is it too much to expect the next gen cards to be able to play all the games of the last 6 months at max quality and 30+ fps?

Aparantly so.

Yes, any increase is welcomed but 40% is not enough.
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Expecting all games to run at 16xAA/AF at playable frame rates is expecting too much, after all if you buy ferrari you wouldn't expect it to go 250mph all the time either would you.

Acceptable to me is 1920x1200 with 2/4xAA/16xAF if its smooth then im happy. I doubt you will ever find a graphics card capable of playing modern games at extreme resolutions and maintain 16xAA/AF with acceptable frame rates (30fps+) certainly not something that's affordable atleast.

The 4850 is a sub 150 graphics card your asking for the performance of a 600+ setup for under 150 quid. That's just being totally unrealistic.
 
GeneralD said:
Crysis was not a number one best seller. Maybe for a week at launch, it didnt do anywhere like what they where hoping and it was ripped appart by reviews and tech sites alike for being badly flawed, both in the game it's self and the technical issues that plauged everyone who ran it, even at the time dual 8800 Ultra machines (and still now).

Profits and targets aside, Nvidia and ATi look at the games that are on the market and see how well there doing in them. Crysis represents so little a share of the market, to what point and purpose would be served in spending a fortune on a mega card to appease people who play a game that knowone plays (proportionatly)? It's only uninformed all be it well intentioned gamers who take Crysis (and to quote a guy from this thread) as the be all and end all of games. It isnt. Not even slightly.

Be like Jeremy Clarkson reviewing a new ferrari and slating it cause it cant tow a 5 ton solid slab of concrete, it's nonsense.

There new cards, and even there old ones, are running the vast majority of the games libary at very smooth resolutions with a lot of the filters turned on. If we where in the situation Nvidia and ATi where making cards that ran everyting at literally a million frames a second, we would be accusing the games developers of being lazy. Cant win.

With regards to price of the ATi cards. I think we can still hold on to £199 for the 4870 imo. ATi said from the very begining they where going for 'super aggressive'' pricing, in order to tempt gamers away from Nvida. If we where in a situation ATi had a similar market share (or better) than Nvidia we could expect price gouging. But this card(s) is supposed to regain the presitige of the company and put them back out in contention. Profit plays a big part in it, but if anything, these new parts are out to regain some of the prestiege of ATi which not to get too philisophical about is arguably more important.

Martyn
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I am waiting for Crysis 2 to come out and claim that their engine is the best looking engine ever with real time ray tracing and then bitch about how people aren't buying their games.

Crysis 1 - very bad engine, period.
 
~>Dg<~ said:
crysis like anyone plays it :p we all on cod 4 lolz

is this 4850 ok with pci 1.0a 15th time asked but noones said.:(
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Depends what the motherboard is, if its the AsRock with the VIA chipset, then no, the gfx card will need flashing with a GEN1 BIOS to work, if its not one of those boards, then she should be fine, as PCI-E 2.0 is backwards compat.
 
MadMossy said:
Expecting all games to run at 16xAA/AF at playable frame rates is expecting too much, after all if you buy ferrari you wouldn't expect it to go 250mph all the time either would you.

Acceptable to me is 1920x1200 with 2/4xAA/16xAF if its smooth then im happy. I doubt you will ever find a graphics card capable of playing modern games at extreme resolutions and maintain 16xAA/AF with acceptable frame rates (30fps+) certainly not something that's affordable atleast.

The 4850 is a sub 150 graphics card your asking for the performance of a 600+ setup for under 150 quid. That's just being totally unrealistic.
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Well.......If you bought a 250mph Ferrari you would expect it to be able to do 250mph not just 30mph cause the road was badly coded.

I wasn't talking about extreme resolutions, 1680 x 1050 I would say is now the biggest percentage of gaming res. 1920 x 1200 and above I would call extreme.

I was referring to the 4870 and not 4850 card which is clearly a mid range card and slower than cards already out. The 4870 will be ATI fastest card and next gen so my point is valid until they release the 4870x2 which still won't supply enough performance. Plus my comments were aimed at both manufacturers of next gen cards including the GTX280 which is a £450-£500 card.

Due to badly/lazy coded games there are still going to be games which won't play at 1920x1200 with 2/4xAA/16xAF at 30+fps min even with the un-affordable next gen cards.

And you can't even do it with a £600 setup.
 
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Greebo said:
Well.......If you bought a 250mph Ferrari you would expect it to be able to do 250mph not just 30mph cause the road was badly coded.

I wasn't talking about extreme resolutions, 1680 x 1050 I would say is now the biggest percentage of gaming res. 1920 x 1200 and above I would call extreme.

I was referring to the 4870 and not 4850 card which is clearly a mid range card and slower than cards already out. The 4870 will be ATI fastest card and next gen so my point is valid until they release the 4870x2 which still won't supply enough performance. Plus my comments were aimed at both manufacturers of next gen cards including the GTX280 which is a £450-£500 card.

Due to badly/lazy coded games there are still going to be games which won't play at 1920x1200 with 2/4xAA/16xAF at 30+fps min even with the un-affordable next gen cards.

And you can't even do it with a £600 setup.
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U cooling your gts with water greebo ?
 
Greebo said:
Well.......If you bought a 250mph Ferrari you would expect it to be able to do 250mph not just 30mph cause the road was badly coded.

I wasn't talking about extreme resolutions, 1680 x 1050 I would say is now the biggest percentage of gaming res. 1920 x 1200 and above I would call extreme.

I was referring to the 4870 and not 4850 card which is clearly a mid range card and slower than cards already out. The 4870 will be ATI fastest card and next gen so my point is valid until they release the 4870x2 which still won't supply enough performance. Plus my comments were aimed at both manufacturers of next gen cards including the GTX280 which is a £450-£500 card.

Due to badly/lazy coded games there are still going to be games which won't play at 1920x1200 with 2/4xAA/16xAF at 30+fps min even with the un-affordable next gen cards.

And you can't even do it with a £600 setup.
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A badly coded game is not the fault of ati/nvidia, even if they released a total beast of a graphics card a poorly optimized game is still going to run badly. 1280x1024 / 1440x900 are the "norm" for current display resolutions, 1650x1080 and 1920x1200 are still classified as high resolution certainly higher than the average pc gamer plays at.

And while the 4870 and 4870x2 are ATI's high end models they are still priced in a bracket to compete with nvidia's mid range, the fact that a 130 quid card could potentially out pace the 9800gtx is just a bonus, its still a low price high performance card.

ATI are out of the high end card rat race now adays there not interested, any money they will be making will come from the high volume average performance cards and the oem market, not the 400+ quid cards that may only sell a few thousands units.
 
Adam_D200 said:
I'm really interested in the 4870x2, whats the ETA on those?
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Rumours were suggesting Sep/August release date, but nothing confirmed frankly.

May find out with the 4870XT release next week though.

I would have loved a nice 4870X2, just to buy one and be done with upgrading for a loooong time:) But I guess most will just get 2x4870XTs and be done with it that way:)
 
HighlandeR said:
Rumours were suggesting Sep/August release date, but nothing confirmed frankly.

May find out with the 4870XT release next week though.

I would have loved a nice 4870X2, just to buy one and be done with upgrading for a loooong time:) But I guess most will just get 2x4870XTs and be done with it that way:)
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I was an early adopter on the 3870x2, quite liked it as a card and always leave the option of another at a later date :)

So long as the 4870x2's are ~£300 and have a decent low noise cooling solution then I would be quite tempted to upgrade.
 
ye well im going to buy the card witch is best fps per £ on 22" rez and i dont thing 599 euro for gt280 is in that price range or even gt 260 for what 400 euro +
 
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