Who has the best army in the world?

Over Clocker · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:01

Burnsy2023 said:
Just like to correct you here; there has been for a long time been three blue water navies. You forgot to include France.

Burnsy

France is, by most, no longer considered to be a blue water navy, has been the way for approx the last 2-3 years. I think it is what is now called a Navy with considerable blue water capability.

Burnsy2023 · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:03

NathanE said:
A lot of our full defensive capability lies dormant. For example there are at least 3 air fields around my area, no more than 20 miles to any of them. All of these have disused hangars and such like. In the event of a major war these could be reactivated within a very short space of time.

This is very true. The US is famous for having vast amounts of military hardware just kept in storage. If everything went to pot, they could reactivate a hell of a lot of assets.

NathanE said:
The good thing about being an island is that it is very very hard to attack. We have a complete coast line that we can defend. Many countries don't have this. China for instance may have a great wall but if they managed to **** a neighbouring country off enough they could walk straight in!

Invading and capturing land is one thing, keeping it is very much different.

Burnsy

Tefal · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:04

NathanE said:
Therefore I wonder if 4 Typhoons vs 1 F22 would result in one dead F22?

No, it would result in 4 dead typhoons.

During Exercise Northern Edge in Alaska in June 2006, 12 F-22s of the 94th FS downed 108 adversaries with no losses in simulated combat exercises

i think 1 f-22 took out 15-20 f-15 or something in an exercise too.

Hxc · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:04

qwerty321 said:
Russia have better things to be spending money on than military

Like what, out of interest? Russia has been transformed under Putin and is doing incrediably well due to it's resources.

Admittedly the russian army is in tatters atm, using a hell of a lot of old tech, but the sheer volume of it is still really rather great,.

Burnsy2023 · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:05

Over Clocker said:
France is, by most, no longer considered to be a blue water navy, has been the way for approx the last 2-3 years. I think it is what is now called a Navy with considerable blue water capability.

Not as far as I am aware. They've just ordered another aircraft carrier similar to the ones we're getting. They also carry out various worldwide training missions etc.

France still have a blue water navy.

Burnsy

dannyjo22 · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:06

Tefal said:
aren't most troop movements now done via civilian planes?

Sorry I'm making it sound like when I say troops I just mean troops. What I'm meaning is all the equipment these guys will need when they get there. Weapons, ammunition, artillery, vehicles etc. None of that stuff is moved on civilian aircraft. Hence why we have to beg the yanks to get our stuff to the gulf.

Our 5 C17's that where lease aircraft from boeing wouldn't cut it.

Without america we would be slow boating it to conflicts.

Over Clocker · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:07

Burnsy2023 said:
Not as far as I am aware. They've just ordered another aircraft carrier similar to the ones we're getting. They also carry out various worldwide training missions etc.

France still have a blue water navy.

Burnsy

I think you will find they've actually just cancelled it, and Sarkozy has decimated the defence budget

Tefal · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:07

dannyjo22 said:
Sorry I'm making it sound like when I say troops I just mean troops. What I'm meaning is all the equipment these guys will need when they get there. Weapons, ammunition, artillery, vehicles etc. None of that stuff is moved on civilian aircraft. Hence why we have to beg the yanks to get our stuff to the gulf.

Our 5 C17's that where lease aircraft from boeing wouldn't cut it.

Without america we would be slow boating it to conflicts.

Really? would have thought we could stick a lot of it on the huge civilian cargo planes.

Over Clocker · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:08

dannyjo22 said:
Sorry I'm making it sound like when I say troops I just mean troops. What I'm meaning is all the equipment these guys will need when they get there. Weapons, ammunition, artillery, vehicles etc. None of that stuff is moved on civilian aircraft. Hence why we have to beg the yanks to get our stuff to the gulf.

Our 5 C17's that where lease aircraft from boeing wouldn't cut it.

Without america we would be slow boating it to conflicts.

In times of real war, things like this can be changed extremely quickly though.

Tefal · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:11

out of curiosity wouldn't the cargo variant of the A380 be perfect for military use?

Burnsy2023 · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:11

Over Clocker said:
I think you will find they've actually just cancelled it, and Sarkozy has decimated the defence budget

It's not been cancelled, merely delayed apparently.

I still can't find any source saying that that France's naval capabilities have been downgraded.

Burnsy

NathanE · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:15

What we are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan is nothing. It is more a political exercise than a "total" war. If we wanted to we could pull out tomorrow although we won't because we are waiting for a way to pull out without losing face...

If our country's survival depended on us having a load of cargo/troop transport planes then we certainly wouldn't hang about building them. We have an aircraft industry. Many other countries don't. And those that do don't necessarily have the blueprints to immediately start production... they'd need to design the thing first which can still take months in war time.

dannyjo22 · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:16

Tefal said:
Really? would have thought we could stick a lot of it on the huge civilian cargo planes.

Over Clocker said:
In times of real war, things like this can be changed extremely quickly though.

Ok give me a list of UK civilian cargo aircraft that would be either commandered or would agree to have their aircraft used to carry dangerous air freight. The list of uk companies should make interesting reading and the aircraft they operate. Let alone the act of actually getting the required vehicles and artillery into a side loading cargo bay.

This is the very reason Boeing offered the UK 767 commercial aircraft that could be converted to freighters in time of war but still turn passenger profit in times of peace.

Over Clocker · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:17

Burnsy2023 said:
It's not been cancelled, merely delayed apparently.

I still can't find any source saying that that France's naval capabilities have been downgraded.

Burnsy

Ok, decision delayed until 2012. Sarkozy is hoping to create a European Navy, with the frigates from the German Navy and Aircraft Carriers from the UK.

I seriously can never see that happening. Royal Navy ships sailing under an EU flag is laughable.

The only French carrier, the CdG, is in for repairs so often due to its poor build, that the French Navy do not rely on it. Sarkozy didn't even mention it in his EuroNavy talk!

Also, the French Navy will be reduced by 20%

Tefal · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:17

o yeah if we ever have to go to a defensive war you can bet every plane will be striped out converted to military duty along with lost of other things, benefits would go down the swanney and out military budget could grow hugely.

But we probbably wont ever see that kind of war again.

Tefal · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:19

dannyjo22 said:
Ok give me a list of UK civilian cargo aircraft that would be either commandered or would agree to have their aircraft used to carry dangerous air freight. The list of uk companies should make interesting reading and the aircraft they operate. Let alone the act of actually getting the required vehicles and artillery into a side loading cargo bay.

This is the very reason Boeing offered the UK 767 commercial aircraft that could be converted to freighters in time of war but still turn passenger profit in times of peace.

huh? well probbably the ones that agree would be the ones that we use for troops now, why do they need to be British companies, I'm sure we could hire the firms that fly the huge amounts of civilian cargo at the moment pretty easily.

JBuk · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:19

Tefal said:
But we probbably wont ever see that kind of war again.

i bet somebody said a similar thing after WW1

dannyjo22 · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:19

Tefal said:
out of curiosity wouldn't the cargo variant of the A380 be perfect for military use?

Yes and how many of them UK owned? Will have freight doors big enough to get a tank in. Besides how many UK companies are buying. The doors are designed to take a container not a tank.

Mik3 · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:20

China may well have the most personal, but I would give 100 Chinese for 1 Israel soldier, in modern warfare numbers mean little.

NathanE · 21 Jun 2008 at 22:20

Over Clocker said:
Ok, decision delayed until 2012. Sarkozy is hoping to create a European Navy, with the frigates from the German Navy and Aircraft Carriers from the UK.

I seriously can never see that happening. Royal Navy ships sailing under an EU flag is laughable.

The only French carrier, the CdG, is in for repairs so often due to its poor build, that the French Navy do not rely on it. Sarkozy didn't even mention it in his EuroNavy talk!

Sarkozy is deluded if he thinks our Navy would fly a different flag.

Sounds to me he is trying to leech his navy off of everyone else. Why else would he have cancelled his budget for new ships and then started some deluded campaign to make an EU fleet?