Bikers: Damper/spring settings

Freefaller · 24 Jun 2008 at 08:23

Just curious as to what suspension set up you guys use (obviously depending on the bike.)

Because I'm quite heavy - touching 100kg - I've always had issues with stock damping / suspension. so I've always set the preloads and dampers onto harder settings. Front forks, I'm at 3 clicks, front dampers on 3 clicks too, and funnily enough the same for the rear.

The front now dives a lot less, and the bike when tipping and accelerating just feels a lot more sure and stable. Heavy braking feels much more confidence inspiring too. However on rutted roads it does make it more twitchy and it's a fair bit tougher on the wrists and makes it less "comfortable".

However I'm wondering how much of a difference non-stock forks and springs make to the ride other than just tweaking the stock ones? The TT600 handles amazingly well, tips in fast and with a confidence inspiring grip and stability, however it's just a curiosity thing.

Flukester · 24 Jun 2008 at 08:28

It might be worth getting it setup by some pros.. they'll sort out static sag etc etc. Getting the weight distribution right makes sure the bike turns in and holds line well without sacrifising too much rear traction.

I paid about £50 and the bike handles so well now.... http://www.racelab.co.uk

Here is the work they did.. took them about a hour. I'm a total noob when it comes to fiddling with settings so had no choice but to get people to do it for me.

I gave them a brief that I wanted the bike to be good at everything without trading off any area, so 'road' setup. Also wanted the bike to hold lines in corners better as before I had climb forward like a monkey to get it to hold line mid corner properly. They achieved this by 'tipping' the bike forward slightly, though I have not noticed any loss of rear traction so I'm well chuffed.

When I rode out they told me to treat bike as if it was a new machine and learn it over again, and they were right, was like being on a different bike.

Hawk Tuah · 24 Jun 2008 at 09:47

Whatever it was when I bought it, thats what it is now.

Fireskull · 24 Jun 2008 at 09:50

I had mine setup by Kais on a Crescent open day, but after the winter my rear just got worse and worse so Swapped it out for a WP shock, what a difference, just the level of adjustments aswell, now my front end feels awful going to get the lot setup in few weeks at my TD and if front still feels crap going to get the internals and springs uprated.

Shoei · 24 Jun 2008 at 09:55

Had the suspension on my VTR1000F completely overhauled. New springs in the front plus a revalve to the front and a custom Penske shock in the back, sprung for my weight.
After the forks were done, they were dropped 5mm through the yokes, but the front end still felt higher than stock!
Back end was awesome, no more see/saw action from the back on long sweeping bends. This was done by Revolution

Rilot · 24 Jun 2008 at 09:59

I set my own suspension up measuring static sag at both ends.
I then go for a ride with a c-spanner and screwdrivers.
Ride, twiddle, ride, twiddle until I'm happy.

I usually end up lowering the damping and increasing the pre-load at the front. Most bikes are way over-damped from the factory.

MrSix · 24 Jun 2008 at 11:36

I've got Racetech fork internals and a custom made CBR600 rear shock with an Ohlins spring and CNC'd platform.

The rear is set up for my weight and riding style (fast road) and was done before it was even sent to me by putting it in a donor bike and weighing it down.

The forks haven't been adjusted properly yet, they are just a lot stiffer than the previous ones (stock springs from 1991!). I'm going to set up the forks in the near future.

The bike handles like a new machine...before I used to struggle to get my knee down and it always felt a bit precarious. Now, I can get right over and I find myself scraping my toes at times without meaning to because the bike will tip over that much more easily now and still feel well planted.

moss · 24 Jun 2008 at 11:46

I really need mine setup properly, when I bought it, it was adjusted because the guy was VERY short. Ive made changes myself to the standard settings and it feels quite good, but I suspect some pro's could make it much better.

Rilot · 24 Jun 2008 at 11:52

My advice to anyone who wants to play with their suspension is to start with the factory settings and then adjust from there.
Play with each end in isolation to begin with and only make small adjustments to one setting at a time. Ride and see how it feels.

Freefaller · 24 Jun 2008 at 14:44

Rilot said:
My advice to anyone who wants to play with their suspension is to start with the factory settings and then adjust from there.
Play with each end in isolation to begin with and only make small adjustments to one setting at a time. Ride and see how it feels.

That's exactly what I did - went out with some tools and adjusted as I went along. It just so happens 3 clicks from hardest was the right setting for me.

Northwind · 25 Jun 2008 at 01:54

The TT600's a sweet handling bike but the suspension's not quite up to the standard of the chassis IMO, if it had come with suspension of the quality of the same era's GSXRs it would have knocked them out of the ring on cornering ability... But it didn't. It can definately be improved...

To be honest, there's only so much you can do by twiddling the knobs, if the spring rate's not right, and bikes tend to be made for the more svelte figure. I'm lucky, I'm a runt so I'm generally in the right weight range. For your weight you'd be looking at something in the region of a .95kg/mm spring set for the front, but I don't know what it has as standard. That'd be a good thing to find out- if it's far off that you're never going to get a great result. That said, you can still usually find a decent one.

Also, forks need serviced... A TT's got to be 4 years old or older now doesn't it? Overdue in other words. Nobody ever changes their fork oil... It breaks down over time and the damping goes to pot. How many miles has it got?

There's some very good Triumph owner's sites, that'd be a great place to look- this stuff is very model specific. I'm making educated guesses based off the GSXR stuff I'm used to, as the geometry, weight etc is all comparable, but I don't know these forks.

[rant]
You said something about putting the preload onto a harder setting. I don't want to jump on one line in a post, but this is a pet peeve, preload isn't for adjusting stiffness, in simple terms it affects where the suspension travel starts. It can trick the brain into thinking that the bike's stiffer- remove the sag and the bike feels stiff, as it sinks less when you get on. But in fact all your doing is reducing the bike's ability to react to the road. This is usually most obvious on bumpy corners and ruts, and is classic for causing running wide, loss of traction, crashy handling, and instability. It's hard to explain... But if you get yourself a guide on setting sag, follow that, don't ever try to adjust preload to do anything else. The guide I like's offline but there's lots out there.

[/rant]

Reppyboyo · 25 Jun 2008 at 05:18

There are various guides around the net that cover how to adjust your suspension.
Most will tell you the same thing except for sag values.

The guides seem to vary wildly in what they think your sag target should be.

Freefaller · 25 Jun 2008 at 07:35

Northwind said:
The TT600's a sweet handling bike but the suspension's not quite up to the standard of the chassis IMO, if it had come with suspension of the quality of the same era's GSXRs it would have knocked them out of the ring on cornering ability... But it didn't. It can definately be improved...

To be honest, there's only so much you can do by twiddling the knobs, if the spring rate's not right, and bikes tend to be made for the more svelte figure. I'm lucky, I'm a runt so I'm generally in the right weight range. For your weight you'd be looking at something in the region of a .95kg/mm spring set for the front, but I don't know what it has as standard. That'd be a good thing to find out- if it's far off that you're never going to get a great result. That said, you can still usually find a decent one.

Also, forks need serviced... A TT's got to be 4 years old or older now doesn't it? Overdue in other words. Nobody ever changes their fork oil... It breaks down over time and the damping goes to pot. How many miles has it got?

There's some very good Triumph owner's sites, that'd be a great place to look- this stuff is very model specific. I'm making educated guesses based off the GSXR stuff I'm used to, as the geometry, weight etc is all comparable, but I don't know these forks.

[rant]
You said something about putting the preload onto a harder setting. I don't want to jump on one line in a post, but this is a pet peeve, preload isn't for adjusting stiffness, in simple terms it affects where the suspension travel starts. It can trick the brain into thinking that the bike's stiffer- remove the sag and the bike feels stiff, as it sinks less when you get on. But in fact all your doing is reducing the bike's ability to react to the road. This is usually most obvious on bumpy corners and ruts, and is classic for causing running wide, loss of traction, crashy handling, and instability. It's hard to explain... But if you get yourself a guide on setting sag, follow that, don't ever try to adjust preload to do anything else. The guide I like's offline but there's lots out there.

[/rant]

I apologise for my lack of technical terminology. I know that the preload adjusts the sag, but it's just easy to use "stiffness" as a lazy way of explaining what I meant. You're absolutely right though and I feel suitably castigated for my laziness. However I do prefer the way the bike feels, as I am rather heavy (bloody bodybuilding

) I find the bike acts better with some of the sag removed for some reason. I guess it just suits my riding style.

The bike has around 15k miles on the clock + 1 lady owner and that's it.The bike has had a full service and funnily enough they *did* change the fork oil - but I had to ask for it. However I think you're right stronger spring set should help depending on what I've got. I'll do some digging on some triumph owner sites. I appreciate your input.

I'd agree the geo doesn't do the chassis much good, however since adjusting what I have adjusted it DOES feel a lot better to me, however I'm keen to get it "sorted" properly. I'm not likely to lose any weight any time soon.

All my bikes have had non standard springs in the past, so this is the first "stock" bike I've owned (well bar a few mods, like screen and other bits 'n' pieces), but stock from the point of view of can, ecu management, chassis.

TripleT · 25 Jun 2008 at 09:06

O/T - I always like reading about bikes even without having a blind bit of knowledge about them but could someone explain to me what is meant when a bike "isn't easy on the wrists" please?

Cheers

Freefaller · 25 Jun 2008 at 09:44

Sports bike tend to have you leaning forward quite a lot which means you're supporting your weight and the momentum of the bike on your wrists quite a lot. Town/commuter/touring bikes are a bit more upright and a lot less pressure on the wrists.

Fireskull · 25 Jun 2008 at 10:16

But after about 50 the wind takes the pressure off your wrists with normal riding and if your riding hard your on the tank so no wrist pressure there

Certain bikes are different though, like ducati lol theyre awful.

djbenjo · 25 Jun 2008 at 12:44

I ride an RF600, it is my 3rd bike and I have never even touched the suspension. Can anyone give any links to some decent guides as I wouldnt really know where to start.

TripleT · 25 Jun 2008 at 12:56

Makes sence now that's I've thought about it, cheers

Northwind · 25 Jun 2008 at 18:28

Freefaller said:
I know that the preload adjusts the sag, but it's just easy to use "stiffness" as a lazy way of explaining what I meant.

funnily enough they *did* change the fork oil - but I had to ask for it.

Oh, don't apologise, I'm glad I put in my wee disclaimer about not wanting to jump down your throat about it! I thought it might just be laziness, I'm very lazy meself

Full marks on doing the fork oil, puts you in a very small minority that. Amazing how much of a difference it can make...

See if that was my bike, and I had plans to keep it- triumph owners tend to- I'd go nuts on the suspension... They have the feel of a bike that can really use the upgrades, like a CBR600RR can, the bike's got great poise and balance so that's worth working on. But then I'm a suspension geek, I'm not bothered about power but I'm to used to really good suspension now.

atpbx · 25 Jun 2008 at 18:56

My RGV 250 H had a white power fully adjustable shock at the back, and different springs in the forks.

It was a complete pain in the arse to get it to ride right.