Archimonde in Hyjal - This dude is seriously dangerous

regulus

regulus

regulus

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We're 4/5 in Hyjal and 7/9 in BT, and have decided to focus on Archimonde for the next 4 raids. Well, we have had 2 so far and were handed our asses and epics back on a plate to us. We've read strats, watched videos, discussed it on comm forums but we are no closer to what we were many tries ago.
Did/Do you raiders find him a pain as well?
 
Archimonde is not only a pain to kill once, he can be a pain to repeat. Everyone on the raid MUST have the 2 min pvp trinket while learning it. If they don't, tell them not to bother coming. If you're horde, will of the forsaken will help. Having 4 Shammies for tremor totem (spread through groups) will be amzingly useful as well.

What it boils down to though is the people you take. If people keep dying to fall damage, make them practice in their own time until they never die. Otherwise stop bringing them. If people keep getting doomfired, stop bringing them. You'll probably already have an idea of which 4 or 5 people are causing 80% of wipes. You need to work on them fast or you'll have the same problems every time you go there.
 
Basically:

-divide raid into groups that have a shaman for tremor totem, and any other groups try to make sure they are all undead, everyone should have the pvp trinket.

- go for either a north/south/east/west 4 point split or a semi circle with Archi pushed against the cliff.

-each group must be totally self sustaining, make sure each group has a dispeller + healer.

-give dispellers areas to look after rather than groups, so for example give a mage 'south' and have him dispell anyone that comes into that area, if you try to do it by groups peopel will get thrown out of range and die.

-make sure you do some Tears practice before the boss, make sure everyone has it keybound, and just shout at them untill they do.

-3 things can kill you here, everything else is trivial. The curse will kill people if dispelling is bad or they get thrown far away with it. The fire will kill in the obvious way. The knockback will kill idiots but apart from that forget it, its easy.

-basically the fight is all about individual effort, if 25 people arent on the ball and ready to move away from fire just call the raid off or swap that person out, its very hard to do this while carrying dead weight. Melee should have no problem with the fire, if your melee (rogues+warriors) are gettign fire regularly, shout at them untill they dont. Theres no excuse for a rogue or warrior to die tbh, rogues can cloak, warriors can break fear to avoid the fires.


Right here we go. Tank runs in ahead of everyone else, HoT'd + earthshield etc, in the first 10 seconds everyone should get in position. 2-3 healers are enough on the MT if your healers arent carp. Just dps untill 10 seconds till the next fear, when its 10 seconds away tell everyone apart from the MT healers to run away, it doesnt matter where just get them away from any fire. The fear lasts 4 seconds i seem to remember, they need to be 5 seconds worth of running time away from any fire in any direction, make sure everyone knows how far 5 seconds of running is. You might think 10 seconds is too long and you arent doign enough dps, it doesnt matter, at this stage you need to learn how to not die, not how to kill the boss.
As the raid leader you need to be completely on the ball and looking constantly at the raid so you can shout at specific people who always get fire, its possible to get zero fires all fight, believe me, i managed it for months, shout at people who cant. Once your raid has mastered the fire the rest is just down to making sure people dont die from the curse and fallign damage, the boss damage is rubbish and if the tank is dying you have bigger problems than Archimonde...
Make sure everyone has the ability to see the curse and fire debuffs on their raid frames, especially healers. Force people to get into the habit of using all three types of healthstone, its a must for this fight, as are healing potions, mana pots wont be needed trust me.
try and bring as much ranged dps as possible, 8-10 healers on your first kill.

???????
Profit.


I hope that helped.






Edit: Oh and just to shut up any of the idiots you may have in your raid, THE FIRES ARE COMPLETELY RANDOM. This has been proven btw.
 
Archimonde is a very bad encounter as it is totally luck based, as no one can die during the raid.

On that alone I would probably go 9/9 BT before 5/5 MH

KaHn
 
We've downed the first boss in sunwell and some nights we still struggle on archi :D

If people arnt 100% focused or dont follow simple instruction, then dont bother even attempting.

The main thing is to make all the groups sit tight on top of each other and make them ALL move out away from the boss when fire comes. They shouldnt come back in until fire a despawned or at least gone.
 
The problem we're experiencing in my opinion is the size of the raid community. We're too big. Every raid we have is always with different people with different gear and experience levels. We have a strong core group that is always on the progression kills but we can't be too obvious, for reasons of the people left behind screaming blue murder.

The group we have on Archimonde is dying because of the fires. We made everyone practice the fall for over 2 hours and we seem to have minimal deaths on that. Fearing into the fires due to trinket CD's, due to stupidity or slow reactions is hurting us.

We don't have tanking issues, our tanks and healers is class. Wish the same could be said about our DPS
 
KaHn said:
Archimonde is a very bad encounter as it is totally luck based, as no one can die during the raid.
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RUBBISH RUBBISH RUBBISH RUBBISH RUBBISH RUBBISH RUBBISH RUBBISH

Thats total carp, there is no luck in this fight at all. Its up to you to get away from the fire (which is random), its up to you to use HS+pots to stay alive, its up to you to use your Tears on time and communicate if you got the knockback + curse at the same time. EVERYTHING in this fight is controllable, it just takes practice, and understanding the mechanics of the fight.

God i hate it when people say WoW encounters are luck based, possibly 1-2 in the entire game are, the rest i'll argue to the death that they are completely up to the raid/individual.
 
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Makunouchi said:
God i hate it when people say WoW encounters are luck based, possibly 1-2 in the entire game are, the rest i'll argue to the death that they are completely up to the raid/individual.
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My ex RL and me argued for over an hour when he said the infernal drops on Prince Malchezaar made the encounter totally random and uncontrollable. He actually called a wipe once in Vent when we had two Infernals in the middle of the platform and the DPS had to bunch up in a corner.
 
You know those people you take to raids who aren't amazing at what they do and wipe on just about everything? Archimonde is when its time to cut them loose or just not bother taking them, who were just a liability on every other boss fight until then are now a show stoppper... sadly due to the excessive nerfs of PvE encounters and the removal of attunements theres a decent chance "those people" account for a good proportion of your raid.

You do this stuff with good players, it goes down quick, pre-nerfs with few errors ever repeated... do it with bad and you will spend months and months wiping on stuff until you just luck it, if they went back to 2.0.0 a lot of the guilds happily plodding through BT, wouldn't even be able to do Gruul anymore.
 
regulus said:
My ex RL and me argued for over an hour when he said the infernal drops on Prince Malchezaar made the encounter totally random and uncontrollable. He actually called a wipe once in Vent when we had two Infernals in the middle of the platform and the DPS had to bunch up in a corner.
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Diddnt he know you are able to run while in combat? :p
 
Spektor said:
You know those people you take to raids who aren't amazing at what they do and wipe on just about everything? Archimonde is when its time to cut them loose or just not bother taking them, who were just a liability on every other boss fight until then are now a show stoppper... sadly due to the excessive nerfs of PvE encounters and the removal of attunements theres a decent chance "those people" account for a good proportion of your raid.

You do this stuff with good players, it goes down quick, pre-nerfs with few errors ever repeated... do it with bad and you will spend months and months wiping on stuff until you just luck it, if they went back to 2.0.0 a lot of the guilds happily plodding through BT, wouldn't even be able to do Gruul anymore.
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You raise a point. I noticed that it's always the same people dying, the same people pulling threat from the MT, the same healers spamming a 7k heal on a tank before he is engaged with a boss but still in combat (we all know what happens then).

Up to this point we've managed to 20-23 man a boss, but the stakes on Archimonde is different. 25 people and non of them are allowed to noob it up? not so easy

Edit

We can't yell at people. I tanked Gorefiend last week, and this is what happened.

8k hit,
dodge
dodge
parry
10k hit
dodge
2k flashheal *sighs*
dodge
parry
dodge
10k hit

dead..

I logged straight into the healer channel and started having a go. One got upset (poor thing) and wanted to leave the raid.
You can't really yell at people for making idiotic mistakes. We have to "understand" them
 
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If the tank has lost 7k hp and isnt hitting the boss its not the healers fault, you get 0 threat at all from an overheal, if the healer dosent heal that 7k hp there is a high chance your tank will get bursted down and die.
 
We found him quite easy when we used to do Hyjal, think we got him after about 1 and a half nights or something. Main thing to note is have melee stand as far from tank as possible and no get trapped in circles of flames.

This was back in November though so not sure how different he is now :(
 
OliP said:
If the tank has lost 7k hp and isnt hitting the boss its not the healers fault, you get 0 threat at all from an overheal, if the healer dosent heal that 7k hp there is a high chance your tank will get bursted down and die.
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He has lost nothing, he is merely running in to aggro
 
regulus said:
The group we have on Archimonde is dying because of the fires.....Fearing into the fires due to trinket CD's, due to stupidity or slow reactions is hurting us.
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You may kill Archimonde by taking incompetents along with you, but it will take you possibly 100 or more wipes. You need to rely on luck not throwing a combination of fire/curses/airbursts their way for the entire encounter. That said, the encounter is NOT luck based. Luck only plays a part when you have players who aren't up to scratch.

Expect people (especially healers) to get Doomfired. This is fine and expected. The encounter is perfectly doable and balanced around that. It's when the same Hunter stands there plicking away until the fires run over him, or the mage gets fired, ice blocks and doomfired again that you need to think about removing people.

I disagree with the idea of stacking ranged classes. It's the melee who will be doing most of the damage. Mages for example (my class) don't do vast amounts of damage, but should concentrate on staying alive, decursing before the damage ticks and generally being as low maintenance as possible. Same with all ranged - being 35 yards from a Doomfire (assuming no tremor totem) when a fear hits is much preferable to doing an extra thousand damage.

Finally, you need to get the basics right. It's entirely possible to kill Archimonde with several people dead, but you have to make sure everyone makes sure they're as close to 100% as possible at all times. That means healthstones and pots without hesitation. If someone mistimes their tear a little bit and takes 1000 damage or whatever, they need to bandage up to full and resume. This ensures that one unfortunate death doesn't start a domino effect.
 
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