Best turbo for under £2500

Bear said:
If you think downshifting delays the process of overtaking then you arent thinking and looking ahead enough of what you are doing.
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Well it is though. There is always the extra process of downshifting to delay the process. Say I'm in a turbo car and I spot the gap 400m away, I downshift and floor it and overtake. Now consider the same situation in a NA car, I again spot the gap 400m away, floor it and overtake. It is clearly going to take less time in the NA car assuming both cars have identical performance.

I'm always looking ahead and thinking since I do a lot of karting. I've competed at university level and it's one of the first things drummed into you when you start karting.
 
Turbo lag in our Golf 1.8T, 150bhp is not really noticeable as it kicks in at 1750 rpm. On the other hand in my S3 everything spools up at 2500rpm and you do have to drop a cog if you are just pootling along.
Best thing is to go for some test drives.

PeterT
 
Having owned and driven dozens of turbo cars I don't understand this lag issue. Maybe it's the definition of lag that's confusing me.

Surely it's just down to the way you drive. Ie if you're pootling along at 30mph in 5th gear in a turbocharged car then you put your foot down, sure there's gonna be a delay, but then again the exact same thing happens in an NA car. I wouldn't class that as lag.
If you're caning it and change gear at the redline in a turbocharged car, then it takes a second before hitting full boost again then I'd class that as lag although out of all the turbo cars I've ever driven I can't say I've ever had that as all have had "normal" sized turbos fitted.

As stated above, the Golf 1.8T (when running standard boost) is so smooth it's difficult to even know that it's got a turbo fitted. At first I was convinced that I was driving an NA engine, you just can't feel any extra torque and you don't get any surge in power, it's just smooth from pickup to the redline.
 
eidolon said:
Ie if you're pootling along at 30mph in 5th gear in a turbocharged car then you put your foot down, sure there's gonna be a delay, but then again the exact same thing happens in an NA car. I wouldn't class that as lag.
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You're correct, that isn't lag, that's boost threshold.

eidolon said:
If you're caning it and change gear at the redline in a turbocharged car, then it takes a second before hitting full boost again then I'd class that as lag
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Yep, that's lag.

I agree though, as far as standard turbo cars go I haven't driven one where lag is a real issue. Sure, if you 'look' for it you can notice it, it IME it's barely noticeable for the vast majority of the time.
 
Gaverick said:
Well it is though. There is always the extra process of downshifting to delay the process. Say I'm in a turbo car and I spot the gap 400m away, I downshift and floor it and overtake. Now consider the same situation in a NA car, I again spot the gap 400m away, floor it and overtake. It is clearly going to take less time in the NA car assuming both cars have identical performance.

I'm always looking ahead and thinking since I do a lot of karting. I've competed at university level and it's one of the first things drummed into you when you start karting.
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I disagree with you with a passon, N/A engines are not known for their low down power. Some turbo's are some aren't. Either way the extra acceleration you get from dropping a gear, two or three, will provide a much much quicker overtake. Selecting the lowest ratio possible for the speed is nearly always the fastest way to go. (obviously ensuring you're not already out of the power band). Turbo or N/A
 
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( |-| |2 ][ $;11992079 said:
I disagree with you with a passon, N/A engines are not known for their low down power. Some turbo's are some aren't. Either way the extra acceleration you get from dropping a gear, two or three, will provide a much much quicker overtake. Selecting the lowest ratio possible for the speed is nearly always the fastest way to go. (obviously ensuring you're not already out of the power band). Turbo or N/A
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I agree, The 1.8 zetec mondeo I'm driving at the moment seems to suddenly pick up once you get to about 3.5k revs much like a turbo would below that it's pretty dead :p

Most turbo cars don't have massive turbo lag as the turbos are relatively small and spool up quite easy.. Where as Big bhp modified cars have much large turbos which lag due to time taken to spooooool.. Rather simple isn't it
 
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gareth.e said:
I agree, The 1.8 zetec mondeo I'm driving at the moment seems to suddenly pick up once you get to about 3.5k revs much like a turbo would (although I've only driven turbo diesels) below that it's pretty dead :p
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Thats becuase its a 1.8 Zetec Mondeo with all of 115bhp. It feels slow becuase, staggeringly, its slow.

Go and drive an ST220 and you wont say the same thing.
 
[TW]Fox;11992194 said:
Thats becuase its a 1.8 Zetec Mondeo with all of 115bhp. It feels slow becuase, staggeringly, its slow.

Go and drive an ST220 and you wont say the same thing.
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Well I hope to one day :p

I know it's not very fast, but as a daily driver compared to some of the vehicles I've been able to drive properly (rag it round, rather than test with the owner in or usually feeling too guilty to do so) it's not bad.. On the plus side I managed 50.4mpg from my house in Brighton to another house in southend (80 mile*ish trip)
 
[TW]Fox;11992194 said:
Thats becuase its a 1.8 Zetec Mondeo with all of 115bhp. It feels slow becuase, staggeringly, its slow.

Go and drive an ST220 and you wont say the same thing.
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Fox I wasn't saying N/A are slow just that if you want to go quick you need to use the lower gear and thus higher revs, and thats in any car.

The touque curves i've seen from petrol cars none of them have anywhere near max touque below 2,000RPM. I'm sure there will be exceptions ofcourse.
 
Gaverick said:
Well it is though. There is always the extra process of downshifting to delay the process. Say I'm in a turbo car and I spot the gap 400m away, I downshift and floor it and overtake. Now consider the same situation in a NA car, I again spot the gap 400m away, floor it and overtake. It is clearly going to take less time in the NA car assuming both cars have identical performance.

I'm always looking ahead and thinking since I do a lot of karting. I've competed at university level and it's one of the first things drummed into you when you start karting.
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If you see there is going to be a gap 400m away then you downshift before the last car has passed you allowing you to overtake when the car has passed. If you are doing everything after the car has passed, you arent thinking far enough ahead. Karting is virtually irrelevant as there arent any cars coming in the opposite direction. If anything riding motorbikes on the road is more relevant as you have to read the road so much better as your life often depends on it.
 
If you take what fox said is all well and true the same 200bhp car the na will feel more tougher but your gonna get bored of that 200bhp real quick!

Hence its better to get the turbo as look at the vw 2lt 200bhp in the gti get bored remap 250-260 the cost of doing that to a na car would be in the 1000's instead of a 400 quid remap!!

ive had a bmw e46 330i and a cupra r roughly around the same bhp loved the bmw just got bored of the power couldn't do a lot to change it, the cupra went in the garage 1hr later 280bhp!! differnt car only real reason im sold on turbo cars these days! but a rwd one i.e 200sx etc would be better!

Even one of bmws best engines todate is the new 335i which is a turbo charged car!!
 
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Jez said:
Are you trying to tell me you can plot lag on a graph? :confused:
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A graph with only show boost threshold not transient throttle lag. Soon get used to it though as you roll on the throttle earlier when coming out of corners.
 
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Jonnycoupe said:
A graph with only show boost threshold not transient throttle lag. Soon get used to it though as you roll on the throttle earlier when coming out of corners.
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I was being sarcastic as people always seem to confuse the two. :)
 
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Gaverick said:
However in a NA car you don't have to worry about this, you can just adjust the angle of your right foot and away you go giving a better driving experience.
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Assuming we are talking about proper overtaking manouvers rather than just cruising past people on a motorway, then either:
1) You have a huge N/A engine with a massive amount of torque, or...
2) You are one of those hugely annoying people that overtake in a high gear, crawling past cars at the speed of a snail, maximising your exposure to danger and preventing others overtaking.

If this is not the case then you most certainly do need to shift down a gear to make decent progress.
 
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