The Qur'an - Tonight C4 8pm

Ulfhedjinn said:
You make it sound like this is a bad thing.

People are free to explore their religion as they see fit as long as it doesn't harm anyone else, in my opinion, and he's just doing that in his older years after a lifetime of practising Sunni Islam strictly.
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Nitefly said:
You make it sound as if you want religious people to change their 'ignorent' ways, yet when they do this and conform to society, they no longer fit your criteria as religious...
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No it is not a bad thing, I was just pointing out that there is a certain irony with any "religious" person, they all choose the bits that suit them.
 
Slinwagh said:
No it is not a bad thing, I was just pointing out that there is a certain irony with any "religious" person, they all choose the bits that suit them.
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Why follow a religion in a way that you disagree with, or makes you miserable?

Shouldn't everyone have the freedom to adjust the way they practise their faith to suit them?
 
neo202020 said:
The question then is, why call it a religion? Why not just adhere to your own set of moral values?
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Mirriam Webster said:
1 a: the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>
b (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural
(2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

3archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness

4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
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My mother's boyfriend doesn't seem to contradict these definitions.
 
neo202020 said:
The question then is, why call it a religion? Why not just adhere to your own set of moral values?
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A very good point, but I think people call themselves religious because they do believe in a 'higher' form of life which sticks to some key elements (including moral values) imposed by their religion of choice.
 
WHY the hell were the ******** mutilating that poor girl's genitals?!!!

Seriously though, i've learnt more about islam from Channel4 in 2 hours than i have from my parents in 16 years LOL!
 
Slinwagh said:
All in the name of religion?
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I'm playing supcom whilst watching, what I gleamed from it is that its just an African tradition that at somepoint worked its way into their take on Islam, pretty sure there aren't many who practice it... either way, de-flapping is not pleasant.
 
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Slinwagh said:
Is there a problem with the Qur'an or is it just the twisted way in which people interpret it, the same for the bible and other religious tests.
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Personally, I have a problem with a punishment whipping of 100 lashes (i.e. severe torture that might well prove crippling or fatal) for having sex outside of marriage or in any other way not approved of by religious leaders.

Just one example that's explicitly in the Koran. The Koran, not the hadith, so it's not possible to dispute it within the framework of Islam. The hadith includes stoning to death instead.

Ask some Muslims about it. You might be very surprised at the answers. I recently had a friendly, tolerant, articulate Muslim who most people would deem very moderate (for example, they think people should be free to follow other religions) state that they absolutely advocate 100 lashes for sex outside marriage and stoning to death for adultery.
 
Tefal said:
have you ever done it? It's massively difficult to read religious texts in anything other than their native languages due to th awkwardness the formally very poetic words has in English (or any other language).
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Also, it isn't considered genuine unless it's in Arabic. A translation doesn't really count.

Which makes sense, as they consider it to be authored by God. A translation isn't, therefore it cannot be the same thing.
 
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sr4470 said:
Historical problem in Africa\the ME - its very ancient, just like the male equivalent. Been around since pagan times.

It definitely isn't in the Quran, unless someone cares to show me otherwise?
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You're right - the Islamic material used to support it is in the Hadith, not the Koran. Also (i) the validity of it, i.e. whether or not it really is a statement of Mohammed's views, is strongly disputed and (ii) it could reasonably be interpreted as Mohammed opposing it but not being powerful enough to stop it. Basically, he encountered a woman who cut off parts of girls genitals and told her to cut off less. Assuming it's a genuine hadith, which is hotly disputed.

You can indirectly, but reasonably, use the Koran itself to oppose cutting off bits of a person's genitals, whatever their sex. Altering God's creations is not allowed, simple as that. There's even a passage forbidding making a small cut on a cow's ear (presumably for identification purposes).
 
Angilion said:
You're right - the Islamic material used to support it is in the Hadith, not the Koran. Also (i) the validity of it, i.e. whether or not it really is a statement of Mohammed's views, is strongly disputed and (ii) it could reasonably be interpreted as Mohammed opposing it but not being powerful enough to stop it. Basically, he encountered a woman who cut off parts of girls genitals and told her to cut off less. Assuming it's a genuine hadith, which is hotly disputed.

You can indirectly, but reasonably, use the Koran itself to oppose cutting off bits of a person's genitals, whatever their sex. Altering God's creations is not allowed, simple as that. There's even a passage forbidding making a small cut on a cow's ear (presumably for identification purposes).
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yes, FGM is not allowed in Islam - i would not follow dodgy hadiths when there is clear, undisputed evidence to the contrary
 
On a side note - is there a single approved pronunciation for the name of the core holy book of Islam? I'm interested in finding the best transliteration into this alphabet, so the pronunciation is the whole point. Koran, Quran, Qu'ran...could be almost anything along those lines. The 'Qu' versions are poor transliterations for English because there isn't a vowel after the 'Qu', therefore the correct pronunciation is extremely unclear.
 
fraps said:
yes, FGM is not allowed in Islam - i would not follow dodgy hadiths when there is clear, undisputed evidence to the contrary
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MGM would be forbidden by the same texts, which are not sex-specific. If altering God's creations make it forbidden to cut part of a girl's genitals off, or even to cut a small notch in a cow's ear, then it also make it forbidden to cut part of a boy's genitals off.

How is that treated within Islam?
 
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