onboard or seperate card

beefybarn · 15 Jul 2008 at 12:02

hi, i seem to remember a while ago i read that if you had onboard sound it would affect your cpu performance more than a seperate card.
If this is still true is it best to have a seperate card and if so which one with a budget of about 30 quid.

cheers

split · 15 Jul 2008 at 14:26

Onboard sound in most cases may take a few more CPU cycles but depends what you use it for really.
You seem to have £30 to spend but you don't really know if you need to spend it.
What do you use sound for and are you happy with what you have?

Sound cards in Vista are still a bit hit and miss on some stuff.

bledd · 15 Jul 2008 at 14:28

everytime i use onboard sound, i can hear the a slight sound coming through the speakers when cpu is loading & mouse is moving..

shame really, they should just give you an addin card instead of putting them onboard, the realtek hd sound isn't a terrible chip, but this lets it down in most cases

split · 15 Jul 2008 at 14:33

bledd. said:
everytime i use onboard sound, i can hear the a slight sound coming through the speakers when cpu is loading & mouse is moving..

shame really, they should just give you an addin card instead of putting them onboard, the realtek hd sound isn't a terrible chip, but this lets it down in most cases

If I'm using Stereo Mix, I can hear a small buzz in music for few secs everytime I open a new track with onboard sound.

HeX · 15 Jul 2008 at 15:00

I also find onboard audio crackles and pops more than a lavishly drenched bowl of Rice Crispies.

split · 15 Jul 2008 at 15:09

HeX said:
I also find onboard audio crackles and pops more than a lavishly drenched bowl of Rice Crispies.

It doesn't on an Abit NF7-S tho....in fact nothing I can throw at that messes with it......thinking...doubt it works in Vista.

beefybarn · 15 Jul 2008 at 16:05

split....use the sound for games and just media player so nothing special

FatRakoon · 17 Jul 2008 at 17:37

I still got 2 NF7 Mobos here...

Naturally one has an XP17 and *** other a Mobile XP2500 and naturally of course, both have been to hell and back in the clocking areas but both have been out out to pasture.

I will dig them out and see if Vista will go onto them?

queamin · 17 Jul 2008 at 20:03

FatRakoon said:
I still got 2 NF7 Mobos here...

Naturally one has an XP17 and *** other a Mobile XP2500 and naturally of course, both have been to hell and back in the clocking areas but both have been out out to pasture.

I will dig them out and see if Vista will go onto them?

soundstorm was great

FatRakoon · 17 Jul 2008 at 22:18

Is it ever!

I still say to this very day, that the SoundStorm is the ultimate soundcard or sound solution rather for rock music bar none!!!!

split · 18 Jul 2008 at 00:53

hmm Abit and Vista drivers and workrounds. Not looking good.

I just stuck Vista on my spare PC for fun and enabled onboard audio (MSI Neo 2 plat) using Vista 32/64 bit AC'97 drivers and it's still as bad as it was with XP.

FatRakoon · 18 Jul 2008 at 01:05

I put Premium32 onto my sons MSI NEO2 and its running perfectly.

The Hardware is of course going to be different... OTTOMH its got :-

MSI NEO2 Platinum
BFG 6800GT
SBLive24
4 x 512MB Corsair XMS 4400
X2-3800 @ 2.7

The OnBoard on this board is not what Id call "Mind Blowing" but like many OnBoard solutions, its really a kind of "Get you going till you get a real card" solution.

split · 18 Jul 2008 at 01:10

FatRakoon said:
I put Premium32 onto my sons MSI NEO2 and its running perfectly.

The Hardware is of course going to be different... OTTOMH its got :-

MSI NEO2 Platinum
BFG 6800GT
SBLive24
4 x 512MB Corsair XMS 4400
X2-3800 @ 2.7

The OnBoard on this board is not what Id call "Mind Blowing" but like many OnBoard solutions, its really a kind of "Get you going till you get a real card" solution.

I think my problem is I'm a stereo mix user and that prolly how I test it, and the cheapest Creative card is better when in that mode.
Thing is...Stereo mix aint that bad on the Abit NF7-S in XP.

james.miller · 18 Jul 2008 at 01:16

soundstorm isnt all it was cracked up to be. they all had horrifical bad analogue outputs, and the one saving grace with the D.I.C.E encoding which introduced audio errors including pitch shift at the bottom end and a loss of stereo width. this i found on my own nfs-2 v2 and an asus a7n8x deluxe. compared to a modern sound card, infact compared to modern onboard sound, they arent that hot for music unless your using 2 channel pcm, which you can do with any onboard sound or card with an spdif output and just as good.

FatRakoon · 18 Jul 2008 at 01:49

I have an A7N8X and I also had ( Pasty tense ) the NF7v2 too ( Past tense for a good reason - tyhey are crap )and you simply cannot compare these awful boards with the NF7S.

Sure, it was hyped over what it was, but at the time, these was simply nothign else that could touch it, in the onboard arena... NOTHING!

Of course there is now, but comparing technology from back then with technology today is perhaps the most stupid thing anyone can do!

There is a few reasons why the Abit NF7S was one of the best boards around for *** time and its clocking ability and Audio were the 2 main factors.

Oh, and sayign that music only sounds good in 2 channel is a little bit obvious Id have thought, given that music is only actually produced for 2 channels anyway.

( Cheesy grin - cos I cant see the emoticons )

james.miller · 18 Jul 2008 at 02:02

FatRakoon said:
I have an A7N8X and I also had ( Pasty tense ) the NF7v2 too ( Past tense for a good reason - tyhey are crap )and you simply cannot compare these awful boards with the NF7S.

Sure, it was hyped over what it was, but at the time, these was simply nothign else that could touch it, in the onboard arena... NOTHING!

yes but technology has moved on. the fact is, there are are better solutions out there now.

Of course there is now, but comparing technology from back then with technology today is perhaps the most stupid thing anyone can do!

no it isnt, not when the soundstorm is mentioned in a current thread about onboard sound and sound cards. of course its comparable. you cant have it both ways - you and split where the ones who mentioned it.

There is a few reasons why the Abit NF7S was one of the best boards around for *** time and its clocking ability and Audio were the 2 main factors.

clocking yes. the DICE was an interesting concept, useful because the analogue outputs were poor. a decent analogue card didnt need dice.

Oh, and sayign that music only sounds good in 2 channel is a little bit obvious Id have thought, given that music is only actually produced for 2 channels anyway.

where did i mention this specifically? the analogue outputs on the soundstorm were always terrible, seeing as they used the very same realtek and c-media convertors and output devices that ever other onboard solution used at the time (and something a lot of soundstorm lovers seem to forget - convenient?). DICE was flawed in its implementation and did music no favours and i quote: "SoundStorm is the ultimate soundcard or sound solution rather for rock music bar none!!!!" and using pcm sounded 99.9% the same as everything else out there, as the focus was then shifted on whatever was doing the decoding from PCM to analogue ie: the amp or DAC it was connected to.

.............................................

here are my notes from waaay back in 2004 when i tested my nf7sv2

1) Sub-bass affected

The bottom end of the frequency range (15-35hz) was noticable different. With LFE enabled, the pitch with higher. Not a lot higher, but still higher.

2) A noticable artiface in the upper frequency range

The bottom end was also a lot 'cleaner' with LFE disabled on the soundstorm - there is a noticable hiss in the upper range when playing low bass notes. With LFE disable, that disappears.

3) A large hole in the responce

With LFE enable on the soundstorm, there is a huge dip in responce the 100hz region. If i set the cross-over to 50hz it's better, but if i set the cross-over to 80hz or above there is a big problem. I always though it was a problem with my sub/sat setup on my amp, but when disabling LFE on the soundstorm there is a huge imporvement in that area. Again, in theory this shouldnt even be happening.

4) A problem with stereo imaging

I have found that when running with or without DD encoing selected the LFE channel effected seperation on the two front channels. When you move the slider up through the range (towards 500hz) there is a sharp drop in seperation between the two channels. Try it when listening to any music which makes heavy use of both channels. Move the slider up, and it almost becomes a mono recording.

How much difference this would make to the average pc user i dont know - there aren't many pc speakers than can reproduce audio below 35hz with any real snap anyway, and stereo imaging isn't a great importance with any set of pc speakers. Still, it seems odd to me that there is a difference at all - there shouldn't be in theory and it sounds a hell of a lot better with DD and LFE off altogether.

postmanfw · 18 Jul 2008 at 02:22

split said:
It doesn't on an Abit NF7-S tho....in fact nothing I can throw at that messes with it......thinking...doubt it works in Vista.

Had vista on my nf7-s and sound worked fine after a vista update. Games performance was a different story though...took a big hit

craptakular · 18 Jul 2008 at 07:19

I ordered an Asus D2 Xonar last night!!!!!!!11!!!!!

I am replacing it for my creative Xtreme Gamer. Even on my old card you could here a huge difference in sound quality, playing BF2/BF2142/CSS/COD2 was a totally different experience with a proper sound card.

I say buy an Asus.

split · 19 Jul 2008 at 14:23

james.miller said:
yes but technology has moved on. the fact is, there are are better solutions out there now.

no it isnt, not when the soundstorm is mentioned in a current thread about onboard sound and sound cards. of course its comparable. you cant have it both ways - you and split where the ones who mentioned it.

clocking yes. the DICE was an interesting concept, useful because the analogue outputs were poor. a decent analogue card didnt need dice.

where did i mention this specifically? the analogue outputs on the soundstorm were always terrible, seeing as they used the very same realtek and c-media convertors and output devices that ever other onboard solution used at the time (and something a lot of soundstorm lovers seem to forget - convenient?). DICE was flawed in its implementation and did music no favours and i quote: "SoundStorm is the ultimate soundcard or sound solution rather for rock music bar none!!!!" and using pcm sounded 99.9% the same as everything else out there, as the focus was then shifted on whatever was doing the decoding from PCM to analogue ie: the amp or DAC it was connected to.

.............................................

here are my notes from waaay back in 2004 when i tested my nf7sv2

We seem to love this debate on the NF7-S as we always come back to it.

This is my findings.....any sound card I have tried is better than all the onboard solutions but the best onboard one I have ever tried was on the Abit NF7-S.
As your notes point out, that was 2004 and the sound on 2 motherboards I've tried since then (MSI NEO and Abit IP35 Pro) is not good at all.

Things have moved on but it seems for me at least onboard sound peaked in 2004 and hasn't really improved.....in fact it's got worse.
I don't know if the add on card the supply with the higher end boards are any better, and it seems a lot of money to find out.

james.miller · 19 Jul 2008 at 14:34

dont get me wrong, my nf7s-v2 was fantastic. i managed 247fsb stable with it and it is still running to this day. the sound at the time was fantastic, it offered a very cheap way to get a decent level of sound from the pc without buying a seperate card - if i remember true nf7-s was cheaper than an audigy 2 zs or platinum or whatever it was at the time.

but yes. as good as it was, it doesnt touch the likes of the xonar dx or dare i say it, an x-fi gamer/music.