The *Official* Eve Online Thread

[Revolution6000]

I don't understand how a 50m SP char can cry over a 15m clone, 50m is what 2-3 years of training, and 15m is hard for you to make? I mean you can easily make that just looting wrecks in certain systems on a starter character.

 

[fRostiE]

cool, found a nice phoon setup for blowing away smaller unsuspecting ships at a station...

got a rapier today, he undocked and cloaked but didnt warp awap, i hit the MWD, decloaked, locked and blew it to bits... paid for a good percentage of the phoon

might also fit a sleip out as i've been hitting the missions hard recently so time to splash out on some t2 PVP ships.

my SP is just over 36m so im on about the middle ground of EVE at the moment, still able to have lots of fun just gotta be careful who you pick on to fight, but thats fun in itself at times.

still loving the Rapier sneaky solo belt PVP... endless fun.

Took on 2 cruisers the other day, they were playing with me for a while so i decided to just go for it... decloaked... webbed one at 35km away and got the other at 20km webbed (dual web setup) took out the one at 20km and the 35km one ran tail between his legs, both late 07 / early 08 chars... chaining the lowsec belts but was still good

 

[Northwind]

I don't understand how a 50m SP char can cry over a 15m clone, 50m is what 2-3 years of training, and 15m is hard for you to make? I mean you can easily make that just looting wrecks in certain systems on a starter character.

Yeah, exactly, it's a trivial amount of isk for anyone older than a few months.

 

[spacedskunk]

To be honest, I am really glad I am away from Eve...really glad. The fun I had on eve was short lived...fair enough I played for 2 and a half years...but most of that time was spent docked up using the game as a social network.

I still don't know how people can grind missions (which is what I had to do to use the stuff I trained for)...really...computer games are meant to be entertainment right? Jeeeez, I have more fun doing nothing. It just baffles me on how people can find them fun and grind them for hours on end to get a new faction item for their navy raven to grind them faster.

I used to get that adrenaline rush in PvP, when I was a newbie thats all; I've been 'ganked' and 'blobbed' in all too often I lost that sense of risk all too easy.

It also annoys me that people talk about how easy it is to make isk, when around half of the eve population have an alt dedicated to it...which imo also makes the player-made economy broken. There just isn't room for the little guys.

There is so much as you can see that annoys me about the game as you can probably tell. It wasn't all bad, I made some good friends on there I guess and met some interesting people, that's all it's good for really.

I guess to pinpoint why I quit though is when the alliance I was part of was ruined by a single thread on the forums. I thought the idea of that was just completely retarded beyond belief...how people actually believed that these entities were real; how they got it into their heads that if someone does something bad in Eve to someone else its real, and because of this one incident (which wasn't exactly true anyway)...the whole alliance split in 2 in a childlike frenzy, because of 2 people arguing over a political decision...in a game. Its just plain moronic, and a good example of how people get too attached to the game...so attached that I backed away completely because the idea of that scared the **** out of me.

 

[Northwind]

It also annoys me that people talk about how easy it is to make isk, when around half of the eve population have an alt dedicated to it...which imo also makes the player-made economy broken. There just isn't room for the little guys. .

Pretty much total nonsense tbh, I'm one of the little guys and there's plenty of room for me.

 

[spacedskunk]

Explain then how you can manipulate the market and economy and prove me wrong? Its easy to say I am talking nonsense, when you could be...

 

[Northwind]

You don't have to manipulate the market to make money from it- you can simply play the market as it is, and still profit. Just look for gaps, or trade across markets. I can't be bothered with all that myself generally, but even so i used to make a 100% profit on alloyed trit bars for instance, running them to solitude where they were twice as much as they cost in the Forge and in Verge- I carried them in a shuttle. That's playing the markets on an effective scale with limited resources and no need to create the niche you operate in.

Walmart can manipulate markets, but that doesn't stop my corner shop from selling bananas

<ps, ninja edits >

 

[spacedskunk]

You don't have to manipulate the market to make money from it- you can simply play the market as it is, and still profit. Just look for gaps, or trade across markets. I can't be bothered with all that myself generally, but even so i used to make a 100% profit on alloyed trit bars for instance, running them to solitude where they were twice as much as they cost in the Forge and in Verge- I carried them in a shuttle. That's playing the markets on an effective scale with limited resources and no need to create the niche you operate in.

<ps, ninja edits >

Well its a good point, but its a little..hmm..small scale for what I was really getting at...I will add more examples to just why the eve economy is broken;

CCP allow players to sell time cards bought with real money for in-game isk - This therefore brings an out of game source to the eve economy.

Trading is all well and good, but there's out of game sources which help to break that (cant remember the name of it now...eve-market I think, but its a website with constantly updated market details, allowing you to find profit routes without the need to actually travel as obviously in-game you can only see the regional market).

Invention...too easy, and again mainly done with alts, not to say it was good before invention because of the lottery system. You can essentially invent things so easily and its made the t2 market too accessible. Once of a day it hurt to lose a t2 ship and that was one of the beauties behind them, it was serious risk. Once of a day you were happy to loot a t2 module!

Walmart can manipulate markets, but that doesn't stop my corner shop from selling bananas

Not a good analogy, Eve's market is centralized to one place...you don't go into corner shops or supermarkets...its all on one spreadsheet and mainly focused around busy systems such as Jita.

 

[Northwind]

Hmm. Well, yes, it's small scale (although not tiny- you can still make a good profit in these ways) but then that's kind of the point of the little man. Your beef does seem to be that the little fish can't play freely in the big pond... But turn that around, if people could do large scale market manipulation on day 1, where would there be to go to? Where would the reward be for developing? One of eve's charms for me is that it recognises the fact that it's OK to be the little guy, and rewards it in a lot of ways- and not just picking up the shards that the big guys drop.

I totally agree about the GTCs, allowing money to be imported- I think to be fair it's just pragmatism, real world money will always end up in game worlds, whether it's buying isk or buying characters. It's kind of a fact of life with MMOs, but I do dislike it. To me it's the same sort of game-breaker as playing with alts, so I don't do it.

I'm not sure I agree about the markets though- I tend to go to a market hub to buy interesting items, but I don't ever go there to sell... I find the mission hubs or (now) faction war base systems, because prices are generally better there- you sell slower but for more. My entire industrial op is based around selling goods to a sisters of eve mission hub, and I make on average 25% more than I would in a trade hub, selling to people who don't want to travel to Walmart in Jita. And likewise, a lot of traders make money by buying cheap in a trade centre and shipping it to somewhere else. The trade hubs are really only a neccesity for people selling very high value items, or very high volumes.

With your point on the sharing of market information... Well, the restriction of market info in eve is absurd really, I can cross 3 regions in 5 minutes where I am but I can't find out how much an item costs 1 jump away? Even though I can see what's happening 12 jumps away in the same region? it's very obviously a databasing issue to me, not a design feature.

 

[arknor]

i loved gtc's when i played eve i always paid for my 2 subscriptions with ingame isk

 

[spacedskunk]

...

So you seem to be well in with the trading, I will still be stubborn on the fact that its broken The only way it actually works is with manufacturing from start to finish and doing it all yourself or in a group, and as you said, trading...to some extent anyway, my friend made 500-600M a run in his freighter on an NPC trade route through highsec...which are not exactly hard to find and don't help the economy because the isk to buy the trade items has come from nowhere.

Enough of the market economy though, what do you think of the other points I stated?

 

[Dazzy_G]

Invention...too easy, and again mainly done with alts, not to say it was good before invention because of the lottery system. You can essentially invent things so easily and its made the t2 market too accessible. Once of a day it hurt to lose a t2 ship and that was one of the beauties behind them, it was serious risk. Once of a day you were happy to loot a t2 module!

I take it you've done invention yes? as from what you've just said, it seems you haven't. if invention really was too easy id have a crap load more money than i do now.

 

[Amleto]

thers a difference between easy to complete, and easy to make profit from. He's an elitist and doesnt want t2 mods to be prevalent.

 

[Lil old me]

Anyone has to admit t2 is much better now than it ever was before invention. I have no problem with more people being able to afford t2, at least some people can and its not just reserved for cartel 0.0 alliances!

 

[Northwind]

Well, I agree on grinding missions, though I do it a bit for some people it's an end in itself, and that's frankly odd. Just like mining. There's a guy who runs missions in the same system as me who has 3 alts, and uses them all to run the same mission- 1 DPS, one repper, one salvager, all simultaneously. And the reason he endlessly grinds missions? "To pay for my accounts". AAAGH, is all you can say to that.

Disagree about no incentives for low sec living, that really only applies to mission grinders, the biggest incentive of lowsec life is that it doesn't bore your head off. MMOs without risk are nothing.

No PVP? Disagree too, there's loads, I've even found a fair amount while trying to avoid it And quite varied too. I don't do blobs, as a lag avoidance tactic, but I'll do anything up to 20 man roaming gangs, and the combat's been very varied. I think you can make it boring, if you do the same thing over and over as some do, just jump in a t1 cruiser and go for a roam, then that'll become boring very fast. I've really been mixing it up lately and it makes things far more interesting. Raising the stakes helps, I was playing in T1 frigs and cruisers with cheap loadouts and while it was entertaining, there was no investment in it- if I lost a ship and clone, I couldn't care less. Financially it's the best way to go but I've started using more expensive ships and better loadouts again, because it gives the wins and losses some meaning.

But yep, you can make it repetitive for sure. I bumped into an old pirate, Era Crusader from PAY-N the other day. As far as I can tell he's been camping Amoderia non-stop for a year and a half, hunting mission runners, he killed my first ever BC. Which I can see would be entertaining for a month, but my word, surely by now it must be a bit tired...

I think Eve's biggest problem now is the way combat scales- chuck 80 vs 80 together on a standard node and the game basically breaks completely. That's not good enough, not even close. My last blob went like this: "Warp in. See same screen for 5 minutes. Wake up in station far away". Just poor that. I know it's nothing new but it's a real problem. Especially with FW making the blob so much more attractive/common.

I can't speak for invention, I've never done it. I don't really do much market stuff much, all my comments above were just how I've got into it with minimal efforts and resources, but I couldn't be bothered to be a full time trader.

At the end of the day, I think Eve doesn't coddle you. You need to make it fun, it won't do it for you. That can be a curse but when it works it's great.

 

[spacedskunk]

I take it you've done invention yes? as from what you've just said, it seems you haven't. if invention really was too easy id have a crap load more money than i do now.

Its easy, just takes time and luck. You don't need to try and do anything other than travel to get the items required. AFAIK all you need to do is run some R&D missions to get a research agent to get the data cores, the BPCs required in the mix are easy and cheap to get off the market, and the other things (the things that you don't lose, dunno the name) are relatively cheap now.

So all invention needs is some isk and some time to get going, after that you just need to monitor it and transfer some goods regularly.

And about t2, I used to get that adrenaline rush in PvP, I used to fly a Vagabond back when they were 350M, and I didn't use stabs (which was the in thing back then). It was such as risk, and a good rush to enter any fight with them...I was usually getting shot at because of the ships worth. I never lost that vagabond, still have it...I stopped using it when they become cheap and everyone and their mothers were flying the damn things. I even used to pay 18M per t2 1400mm howie, now they are like 4-5M...or about 2M if I chose to get them off 'contacts'. T2 has lost its...flavour.

 

[Revolution6000]

Then fly a faction fitted Vaga if you want to experience the same rush, personally I think it's pretty stupid to moan about T2 being affordable.

 

[arknor]

And about t2, I used to get that adrenaline rush in PvP, I used to fly a Vagabond back when they were 350M,

i had 3x 600million isk astartes in curse space

it was suposed to be 4 but i wasnt bothering to scout in low sec and came across a gate camp

 

[Dazzy_G]

Its easy, just takes time and luck. You don't need to try and do anything other than travel to get the items required. AFAIK all you need to do is run some R&D missions to get a research agent to get the data cores, the BPCs required in the mix are easy and cheap to get off the market, and the other things (the things that you don't lose, dunno the name) are relatively cheap now.

So all invention needs is some isk and some time to get going, after that you just need to monitor it and transfer some goods regularly.

Your not going to make any money if you do it like that, the margins for invention need constant attention. its not something you can just leave on the back burner

 

[Feek]

I left eve over a year ago, this was a few months before the new battleships and when warp core stabs where common on all ships

Burn Eden had the reputation for using stabs, and got slated for it. But you can't deny it worked for them.

The game got ****** with almost no pvp (it was getting worse and worse for 12months before), low sec was dead, 0.0 was dead, high sec was dead. You could not pvp alone or in small gangs for love nor isk.

Dunno where you've been but a year ago and certainly for the year before there was plenty of pvp out in low sec, I was going out in small roaming gangs almost every night and getting good fights in deep 0.0. And I do mean deep 0.0, almost right on the edge of the map.

I ended up having to steal HAC containers in high sec in my thorax set up to kill hacks (1600mm plate, 600DPS, no reps, beat them down). Fun for a while and good isk when you crap on the faction fitted HACs. (Took down a deimos with over 1.5 Bil of faction gear in my thorax once. was a nice day!)

Thorax taking out a 1.5 bil Deimos? I call BS. Show us the killmail.

the amount of time spent per kill was ridicules (ie in 4 hours you might get 2-3 kills looking hard, wow what fun, 3h for 3m of pvp).

See above. You were looking in the wrong places.

When I left I had 45m skillpoints and was probably one of the top 100 in the game. I sold the character for 15B isk, which was a large sum for the time.

Absolute rubbish. Firstly, even a year ago a 45m SP character was worth more than 15 bil, secondly, my main is just hitting 70 mil SP and according to ineve.net he's around number 500 in total SP rank. A year ago he'd have had around 15-17 mil less. You work it out, but your character is nowhere near as good as you seem to be bigging it up to be.

eve is crap for the following reasons. in no particular order


you join the game with 1m skillpoints and verse players with 50m skillpoints and perhaps the average pvp SP is 25-30m now? people say it dont matter but it sure does, i would know!

How would you? Trust me, it's very possible to play and be competitive with low SP, just look through this thread to see what people say about that.

pod kill prices. why do higher SP players pay 15m per pod kill? it meant I was never in a t1 frig or a t1 gear just because the pod costs so much

I assume you're talking about clones? As clones store more info, they cost more. I think that's perfectly reasonable. But you're such a pvp god that you don't get killed anyway so why does it matter?

t2 : so many problems, the major one being market manipulation and a few ultra rich individuals/corps

You are _so_ wrong that it's unfunny. Invention totally killed the market manipulation that used to exist by t2 BPO holders.

no pvp. Everyone plus dog is scared in eve, no one fights unless they outnumber you 4 to 1.

Rubbish. See above.

no incentives for low sec living.

I'll give you that, low sec is pretty rubbish. Or at least it was before Factional Warfare where lots of low sec have come to life. But why didn't you go to 0.0?

lots and lots and lots of problems

Sorry, can't see it.

imo, 80-90% of people who "play" eve are just logging on to chat with friends 80-90% of the time. nothing else

Maybe that's what you used to do *shrug*