England side for the 3rd Test?

Mad old tory · 22 Jul 2008 at 18:01

I've been having a think about this and I really wouldn't want to be a selector right now.

Bowlers: It's pretty obvious Pattinson will be out, poor selection and doubly harsh on more experience bowlers. If Sidebottom is fit he will most likely come back in, but he has looked pretty average this summer despite his great performances during the winter. Is it time for one of the Ashes heroes to be brought back in? Harmison has dodgy recent form for England at best but is bowling brilliantly for Durham. Simon Jones has had an awful injury list since the Ashes but is probably the best bowler in county cricket right now. Broad looked a bit pedestrian in the last test but was obviously nackered after the 1st test, his contribution with the bat in recent tests makes him an allrounder, though and allows Fred to concentrate on his bowling.

Keeper: We have a simple choice. Do we want the best keeper or do we want runs? Prior if runs, accept he's going to make a ****-up keeping. If keeper, Foster or Ambrose.

Batsmen: Openers fine; KP needs a slap and to be told to calm down but otherwise fine, he averages 51 ffs; Vaughan is a worry and the question is if his captaincy makes up for the batting problems; Bell, yep keep him. Think it might be time for Bopara/Shah to come in though if Vaughan keeps failing and make Strauss/Cook/KP skipper.

My team:

Cook
Strauss
Bell
KP
Vaughan
Broad
Flintoff
Foster
Anderson
Jones
Panesar

Broad's batting should be good enough for no. 6, Bell and KP move up to take the pressure off Vaughan and Jones comes in for Pattinson. Little bit harsh on Sidebottom really but Jones will cause more problems imo. Foster for Ambrose as he's a better keeper.

Can categorically say that that won't be the team but I'd go for it. Jones and Broad at 6 are the brave choices but sod it, England were well beaten last match and need a shakeup.

roid · 22 Jul 2008 at 20:24

Mad old tory said:
My team:

Cook
Strauss
Bell
KP
Vaughan
Broad
Flintoff
Foster
Anderson
Jones
Panesar

This is how i would structure the team.

Cook
Strauss
Vaughan
Bell
KP
Broad
Ambrose
Flintoff
Anderson
Hoggard
Panesar

I think Ambrose can bring so much batting to the table i feel he deserves the place. Broad should definitely move up the batting order as you have suggested after his brilliant displays. Also i think Hoggy will be a much better addition to the bowling attack than Pattinson.

Its a real tossup between Hoggard and Jones for me, the others should probably be in the lineup; Tremlett must also be knocking on the door for a place should any bowler not be up to scratch.

normanthefarmer · 22 Jul 2008 at 21:22

my team would be
cook
strauss
vaughen
bell
kp
prior
broad/hoggard(later down order)
flintoff
anderson
jones
panesar

i think prior is a genuine batsmen and although his glovework hasn't been the best i think being left out the side has changed him and will become englands no 1. he can definetly play no6 imo.
the only doubt would be broad, he is a tremedous talent but he has not delivered consistantly with the ball in teest matches but if we leave him out it leaves the side unbalanced and with a big tail. although with hoggard in the team he often does the dirty work(long spells) and can allow for anderson/ flintoff to be classed as stirke bowlers whivch was not apparent in last test.
other people to mention is harmison who i still feel has a role in the england side on current form and owais shah, i really like this guy as a player and want to see him given a proper chance at test level.

Greenlizard0 · 22 Jul 2008 at 22:20

11 KP's to bat. And then when it comes to field they all get injured and have to be replaced with substitutes consisting of the following :

a giant dome around the wicket in the middle (the bowler of course forfits his run up).

oli collett · 22 Jul 2008 at 22:24

I thought i'd come up with the perfect side today, and then i realised i had left out monty.

If Sidebottom is back up to bowling 84-85mph then i'd definately pick him. That 2-3mph he's been missing has made a big difference and when he's firing he's one of the best new ball bowlers around. I certainly wouldn't recall hoggard over him.

I don't see Prior as a solution to the keeper problem - i think right now isn't the best time to change keeper although Ambrose clearly doesn't seem to be the best solution. Maybe Foster is worth a shot?

I'd be tempted to drop Broad for Jones but since he's been one of our best batsman that doesn't really work. Wait, hang on, drop Vaughan, he's not been batting well, Broad bat's at 3, then we have Jones come in, and, no wait, that doesn't work.

I give up. Can't Flintoff get injured again? It makes it a lot easier.

goujon945 · 22 Jul 2008 at 22:25

Personally i think that Broad is a definite choice, okay he wasn't great with the ball but he is a legitimate all rounder with a great attitude. I agree that the keeper is a problem position but there isn't an obvious choice and i would stick with Ambrose for team chemistry. I feel that the Vaughan's place is th real issue here, but it would be a brave decision to drop him.

MarcLister · 22 Jul 2008 at 22:28

Cook
Strauss
KP
Bell
Vaughan
Broad
Foster
Flintoff
Anderson
Sidebottom
Panesar

For me.

If Sidey is fit I'd have him in the team. Broady is undroppable atm with his recent bowling form (this last Test aside) and his amazing batting. Since Stewart retired we've had G.Jones/Read/Prior/Ambrose and I think we need to see what Foster is like and if he's OK then good. If not back to Prior I think.

HangTime · 22 Jul 2008 at 23:11

Assuming Sidebottom is fit, I'd be tempted stick with the team that played the first test, they have 4 wins and 2 draws from previous 6 matches.

Only question marks really are over Collingwood (replace with Flintoff?) and Ambrose.

What has traditionally annoyed me with England is when we supposedly pick a keeper for his batting (rather than just on who is the best gloveman), and then they don't really get many runs anyway. Take Geraint Jones, supposedly we should excuse some shoddy keeping because he was going to get us all those runs, yet he has an average of under 24 in TMC. If he was wading in with big scores and averaging high 30s/low 40s then fine, maybe we could excuse it. But him getting 20s and 30s isn't going to win us test matches, yet missed chances in the field could lose them. It took far too long for us to discard him.

Just look at this prior to the ashes: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/6140748.stm
It's there in black and white, "At this stage we're convinced that Jones will be a better prospect for batting at number seven." And we know what a joke he was in that series.

MoratJG · 26 Jul 2008 at 12:04

Squad announced:

MP Vaughan (capt, Yorkshire), AN Cook (Essex), AJ Strauss (Middlesex), KP Pietersen (Hampshire), IR Bell (Warwickshire), PD Collingwood (Durham), A Flintoff (Lancashire), TR Ambrose (wkt, Warwickshire), SCJ Broad (Nottinghamshire), RJ Sidebottom (Nottinghamshire), SJ Harmison (Durham), JM Anderson (Lancashire), MS Panesar (Northamptonshire).

Pleased to see they haven't dropped Broad, he needs wickets though. As for Harmy; I like him but he need to show some balls this time around. I can't help feeling they are a little bit confused with the bowling line-up. Can't blame them mind, someone needs to step up

normanthefarmer · 26 Jul 2008 at 12:23

MoratJG said:
Squad announced:

MP Vaughan (capt, Yorkshire), AN Cook (Essex), AJ Strauss (Middlesex), KP Pietersen (Hampshire), IR Bell (Warwickshire), PD Collingwood (Durham), A Flintoff (Lancashire), TR Ambrose (wkt, Warwickshire), SCJ Broad (Nottinghamshire), RJ Sidebottom (Nottinghamshire), SJ Harmison (Durham), JM Anderson (Lancashire), MS Panesar (Northamptonshire).

Pleased to see they haven't dropped Broad, he needs wickets though. As for Harmy; I like him but he need to show some balls this time around. I can't help feeling they are a little bit confused with the bowling line-up. Can't blame them mind, someone needs to step up

there confussed with bowling line up as they dont know if they want 4 or 5 bowelers. With freddie not being an actually a no 6 the balance of the squad needs to be comprimised. Talk broad will be dropped although if that happens england would seemingly have to have a 4 bowler attack.

oli collett · 26 Jul 2008 at 13:04

normanthefarmer said:
there confussed with bowling line up as they dont know if they want 4 or 5 bowelers. With freddie not being an actually a no 6 the balance of the squad needs to be comprimised. Talk broad will be dropped although if that happens england would seemingly have to have a 4 bowler attack.

I don't think Freddie and Broad can both play in the same side until Broad can start taking more wickets. As good as Broad's batting is, right now i can only see it saving a game. I expect the lineup will be a straight sidebottom/pattinson swap with maybe Harmison coming in for Broad. Collingwood is an option but if we bring him in at the expense of Broad then we're never going to have a hope of bowling south africa out.

normanthefarmer · 26 Jul 2008 at 13:42

oli collett said:
I don't think Freddie and Broad can both play in the same side until Broad can start taking more wickets. As good as Broad's batting is, right now i can only see it saving a game. I expect the lineup will be a straight sidebottom/pattinson swap with maybe Harmison coming in for Broad. Collingwood is an option but if we bring him in at the expense of Broad then we're never going to have a hope of bowling south africa out.

its one of those annoying problems. I do agree ithink we have to go in with a side to bowl SA out twice, and have to have faith in batters to perform. vaughen needs a score otherwise his place has got to be under pressure(i felt he hasn't perform that well for a v long time) great captain or not he must be one of the weakest batters at no 3 in international cricket at the moment.

Mad old tory · 26 Jul 2008 at 13:53

Not a particularly surprising squad really. Would like to see Harmison back in but not at the expense of Broad, who will come good with the ball soon I feel, so they either swap Harmi and Pattinson and leave Sido out or drop a batsman for Sido and hope Broad's batting form continues.

Cook
Strauss
Vaughan
Bell
Pietersen
Flintoff
Ambrose
Anderson
Harmison
Sidebottom
Panesar

is the team I expect though which is a bit weak batting wise but strong bowling.

MoratJG · 26 Jul 2008 at 14:47

I really hope they keep Broady in. Yes, he is struggling for wickets but, as a whole, I think he brings a great deal to the team. He wants to win, and I think that is something that too many England players sometimes overlook. I'd liken him to a Freddie circa 04-05; someone who can genuinely turn a game.

As for Harmy, time will tell. He is world-class, no doubt; tall, fast, and *sometimes* aggressive, when he is on form seeing him charging in, arms aloft, is a joy to behold, when he can't be bothered it's clear to see and bloody frustrating.

As for the final team, I think MoT has it right; it might be time for 5 bowlers - I'm not holding my breath though.

Fothsn · 26 Jul 2008 at 14:59

Just seen the full squad, Collingwood and Harmison are back!

Good pick looking forward to seeing Harmison in England colours, currently watching the finals day which is a bit strange as Cook and Strauss have being pulled out but Collingwood and Harmison have being left in :confused:

Mad old tory · 26 Jul 2008 at 15:23

Harmison is very much a rythm bowler and needs to bowl consistently while Colly has been out of form and needs time at the wicket. Also, the players who played last week probably need a bit of a rest and Cook and Strauss are in fairly good touch too.