The Dark Knight - **Spoiler Thread**

Soldato
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I haven't seen this yet, but I think today is the day most people from the UK will start seeing it. So we can all post spoilers in here without ruining the hype. :cool:

It's also a good opportunity to test out using the thread rating stars to rate the film. Let the spoilers commence. :D
 
It's a great film but make no bones about it, this thing is all about one man, Ledger is THE reason to see this movie.
With all this talk of him getting an Oscar for his performance i was all "yeah yeah, give the dead guy an award you suck ups" but really, his portrail of the Joker is near perfect, he deserves a nomination at the very least.
 
Only a couple things wrong with it, very strong film though. Maggie I though simply didn't suit the role at all, wrong voice, she's a indy film type of actress and, she just wasn't good enough, also her going out the window the screaming was awful and it just seemed bad, could have done with holmes back in it or someone else.

THe whole sonar thing was a classic example of perposterous use of current technology followed by a useless action sequence that was made worse by the tech.

THe other thing being, the film seemed to lack that flashback to the past thing the older batmans with Keaten did well to give you a hint as to why characters were they way they were. THe Joker's character simply was, there was no reason or way he got to how he was which was a big shame and a massive missing bit. Though possible they had something that had to be cut as it wasn't shot before Ledger died. I do think Ledger was very very good being the JOker, but then, it wasn't a hugely difficult role, do a slightly dodgey voice and sound crazy. It wasn't better than Nicholson's version, it was simply writen very differently, these two films are aimed at being darker while the first two films had that slight camp edge to the filming, bright colours and music and stuff, more cartoony feel.

The joker needed those, getting to be crazy and character growth from past events scenes to complete the character.

THe best thing Ledger did was his body language tbh, when he's kind of walking away from the hospital kind of, not quite sure what the word is, weird walk, but the way he turned and moved was very very good, perfect.

The reason its one of the best films in years is because, unlike Batman Begins, even if Ledgers character was slightly incomplete, in terms of his use throughout the film, there was finally a villain worthy of a Batman film. It wasn't hard to see the biggest difference between keatons films and the others, including Begins, was a lack of a proper villain in it from start to end whose truly evil and maniacal. Neason not being in 90% of Batmin begins and turning out to be the big villain was terrible, guy with a mask was awful and it was just missing so much. Batman begins would have been so much better with a main super evil villain from start to finish with the "how batman got to be batman" spread throughout the film around the main story. IT was that how batman got to be batman, that was so lacking for the Joker, even if it was only 5-10 mins throughout the film it was needed.
 
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^ I disagree entirely. I hated Nicholsons camp Joker. Ledger positively vanished within The Joker. His voice, has manner, his attitude, everything was great. He's not a comic book Joker. He's not even based on any interpretation of one, he just created his own psychopathic version. He was truly unsettling in every scene. And funny, too.

My favourite scene was when Batman was knocking lumps out of him in the interrogation room. Ledgers acting had my jaw on the floor there. Breathtaking.

He's about a million miles away from Nicholsons camp, over-acted take on the Joker.

I like that there was no back story and no flashbacks. Sometimes it's good just to have a character there because then you're forced to question his motives. To question why he is the way he is. As was said by Alfred in the movie, "some people just want to see the world burn". With a back story you wouldn't have gotten a sense of this with The Joker. Instead, you just get the feeling that this guy is a psycho. He is chaos. He really IS insane.

And the end, when he summed up his relationship with Batman was perfect. It summed up the entire movie and the entire dynamic not just within the movie, but throughout every Batman story.
 
Saw this @ IMAX last night.
The way I see it is you're always going to be able to pick holes in tech/plot/characters. Its a film...it is fantasy isn't it?!
At the end of the day this film was damn near perfect IMO. It's been a while since I've seen a film and still been genuinley excited/blown away/desperate to go and see it again.
You're right about Ledger. What an amazing performance. Jaw dropping stuff.
 
Fantastic film, saw it advanced screening last night. Joker is a perfect representation of a charachter in my opinion, portrayed so well. Also pshycotic and funny? What a great mix!
One quote for you all:
"Want to see a trick? I'll make this pen dissappear!"
That bit had the audience in hysterics. Along with the Joker-nurse!
 
^ I disagree entirely. I hated Nicholsons camp Joker. Ledger positively vanished within The Joker. His voice, has manner, his attitude, everything was great. He's not a comic book Joker. He's not even based on any interpretation of one, he just created his own psychopathic version. He was truly unsettling in every scene. And funny, too.

My favourite scene was when Batman was knocking lumps out of him in the interrogation room. Ledgers acting had my jaw on the floor there. Breathtaking.

He's about a million miles away from Nicholsons camp, over-acted take on the Joker.

I like that there was no back story and no flashbacks. Sometimes it's good just to have a character there because then you're forced to question his motives. To question why he is the way he is. As was said by Alfred in the movie, "some people just want to see the world burn". With a back story you wouldn't have gotten a sense of this with The Joker. Instead, you just get the feeling that this guy is a psycho. He is chaos. He really IS insane.

And the end, when he summed up his relationship with Batman was perfect. It summed up the entire movie and the entire dynamic not just within the movie, but throughout every Batman story.

eh, firstly, my point was not that I liked either joker better, my point was they weren't comparable. Neither was trying to play the same character, the original batman had the whole slightly camp, music/singing/colourful cartoony vibe on purpose. This film was different, the dialogue was very different and the idea was different. I think Ledger played it brilliantly, but at the end of the day it was an incredibly one dimensional character. THe best acting roles are normally for people who have to portray a wide range of emotions and idea's within a character. Maybe a Schindlers list where he has to get across sympathy, hardness, emotion hatred, anger and all the rest.

Back story would also have taken nothing away from how psycho he had become, it would just of allowed us to see how he got there, which would have incidentally, if played right, had the character most likely start off a little more sane, be beaten into insanity and thereby showing a wider range of acting which would have made it a more oscar worthy performance.

Again, I'm not saying Nicholson was better, or the character was better. But when you look at the films, Nicholson was asked to play, the normal straight bad guy, then the psycho, the artist, the angry, the happy, the camp, the singing, the flirting, the witty elements. Ledgers Joker was only ever asked to play psycho, he did it very well but he didn't actually have much to do.
His role was writen very very well though, really almost perfect dialogue throughout.
 
eh, firstly, my point was not that I liked either joker better, my point was they weren't comparable. Neither was trying to play the same character, the original batman had the whole slightly camp, music/singing/colourful cartoony vibe on purpose. This film was different, the dialogue was very different and the idea was different. I think Ledger played it brilliantly, but at the end of the day it was an incredibly one dimensional character. THe best acting roles are normally for people who have to portray a wide range of emotions and idea's within a character. Maybe a Schindlers list where he has to get across sympathy, hardness, emotion hatred, anger and all the rest.

Back story would also have taken nothing away from how psycho he had become, it would just of allowed us to see how he got there, which would have incidentally, if played right, had the character most likely start off a little more sane, be beaten into insanity and thereby showing a wider range of acting which would have made it a more oscar worthy performance.

Again, I'm not saying Nicholson was better, or the character was better. But when you look at the films, Nicholson was asked to play, the normal straight bad guy, then the psycho, the artist, the angry, the happy, the camp, the singing, the flirting, the witty elements. Ledgers Joker was only ever asked to play psycho, he did it very well but he didn't actually have much to do.
His role was writen very very well though, really almost perfect dialogue throughout.

I know what your point was. I was disagreeing with your points...
 
Nobody knows the Joker's origin, there's been a few explanations, all different, explained later on in the comics by the fact he's lied so much about it in the past he actually can't remember anymore.
Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another... if I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!
I think his different explanations for how he got his scars in the film were a nod to this.

Nicholson was fun, but for me, the character of the Batman is a very dark one, so his nemesis should be darker still, Ledger took Nolan's concept of this and distilled it to a psychotic perfection. Having said that, I think it's a shame that Eckhard's performance will be overlooked because of Ledger's shadow, I thought he made an excellent Harvey/Two-face. It's a shame he's been killed off, I'd like to have seen him in the 3rd film.

Question is, who's next?
Scarecrow is done, Joker is done and can't be continued with, and Two Face is dead.
The obvious ones are Penguin, Catwoman or Bane, and as the Knightfall story would take at least two films to cover properly, it's either Penguin, who happens to be my least favourite Batman villain, or Catwoman, who might be workable now Rachel is dead.

I wish it could be Bane though, I reckon Nolan could do that story justice.


Edit: Oh yeah, and how good was the CGI for Two-face?! I think that's the first seamless example of that quality and detail I've ever seen, it got to the point where I was trying to figure out if it could just be an exceedingly clever make up job!
 
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Nobody knows the Joker's origin, there's been a few explanations, all different, explained later on in the comics by the fact he's lied so much about it in the past he actually can't remember anymore.
I think his different explanations for how he got his scars in the film were a nod to this.

Nicholson was fun, but for me, the character of the Batman is a very dark one, so his nemesis should be darker still, Ledger took Nolan's concept of this and distilled it to a psychotic perfection. Having said that, I think it's a shame that Eckhard's performance will be overlooked because of Ledger's shadow, I thought he made an excellent Harvey/Two-face. It's a shame he's been killed off, I'd like to have seen him in the 3rd film.

Question is, who's next?
Scarecrow is done, Joker is done and can't be continued with, and Two Face is dead.
The obvious ones are Penguin, Catwoman or Bane, and as the Knightfall story would take at least two films to cover properly, it's either Penguin, who happens to be my least favourite Batman villain, or Catwoman, who might be workable now Rachel is dead.

I wish it could be Bane though, I reckon Nolan could do that story justice.


Edit: Oh yeah, and how good was the CGI for Two-face?! I think that's the first seamless example of that quality and detail I've ever seen, it got to the point where I was trying to figure out if it could just be an exceedingly clever make up job!

The fate of Harvey Dent is never explicitly stated. It never says that he's dead. So I guess he could come back for the next one. If there IS a next one...
 
I've just got back from seeing it with some friends, and all I can say is WOW. What a fantastic film. Christian Bale, Morgan Freeman, Michael Caine and of course, Heath Ledger. Sublime performances from all, especially Ledger.

A great great GREAT film.
 
The fate of Harvey Dent is never explicitly stated. It never says that he's dead. So I guess he could come back for the next one. If there IS a next one...
It had the highest grossing first weekend of any film in history, plus the ending is left waaay open for another.
I'd say there's about a 0.001% chance of there not being a 3rd film.

You're right about Harvey too, I did clock that, if they can make Gordon 'die' then I suppose making Dent vanish to preserve his legacy and make him a martyr is entirely plausible. Maybe I'm just too used to the whole hollywood thing of making it supremely obvious when they're hiding something, Nolan doesn't really buy into that, so it'd be great to have a surprise like that.
 
Just got back from watching this and what a stunning film it was. Ledgers performance had been hyped up so much and I was a little worried that he wouldn't live up to expectations but oh boy did he. The CGI used to transform Dent into Two-face was also fantastic if not a little gruesome (this was a 12A after all) but I didn't mind that too much.

Back story would also have taken nothing away from how psycho he had become, it would just of allowed us to see how he got there, which would have incidentally, if played right, had the character most likely start off a little more sane, be beaten into insanity and thereby showing a wider range of acting which would have made it a more oscar worthy performance.

According to the idmb trivia section for TDK "Director Christopher Nolan and co-writers Jonathan Nolan and David S. Goyer decided not to explore the origins of the Joker in order to portray the character as "absolute."
Whether or not you agree with that choice is obviously up to you but the Nolan brothers and Goyer obviously thought it would make for a better character.
 
You're right about Harvey too, I did clock that, if they can make Gordon 'die' then I suppose making Dent vanish to preserve his legacy and make him a martyr is entirely plausible.

That was how I read it, perhaps not what they intended initially, yet worked it into the film via editing due to the obvious with Joker. :) Btw at what point did Scarecrow meet his end as I must have missed that during my quick toilet trip, far too much Coke :)
 
That was how I read it, perhaps not what they intended initially, yet worked it into the film via editing due to the obvious with Joker. :) Btw at what point did Scarecrow meet his end as I must have missed that during my quick toilet trip, far too much Coke :)
I don't think he did, I meant they've kind of covered his character, I don't think there's much else to go back for, he's a bit one-dimensional.
 
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