but its not just people with money, there are plenty of people in the 2nd hand market who buy bottom level BMWs or cars with only under 50k on them because they are either badge snobs or of the opinion a car that has been driven will blow up soon.
4x4 love or hate?
- Thread starter Jez
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but its not just people with money, there are plenty of people in the 2nd hand market who buy bottom level BMWs or cars with only under 50k on them because they are either badge snobs or of the opinion a car that has been driven will blow up soon.
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Oxymoron alert!
Why do they no longer make 2wd 4x4s, I remember my dad having a Chevy Blazer and a Ford Bronco which both had selectable 2 or 4 wheel drive, why is this no longer the case?
My mum used to do the school run in a 7.8L TransAm with Arabic license plates, it used to scare the other children and their parents (back in the 70s).
Why do they no longer make 2wd 4x4s, I remember my dad having a Chevy Blazer and a Ford Bronco which both had selectable 2 or 4 wheel drive, why is this no longer the case?
My mum used to do the school run in a 7.8L TransAm with Arabic license plates, it used to scare the other children and their parents (back in the 70s).
In this day and age i think if school mums were driving 3l plus sized engine saloon cars just for the school run they would be getting a lot of bad press as well. Most of the cars doing the school run only do the school run and very rarely have a good motorway run and there is just no need for ML, X5, Range rover sized vehicles doing those runs it is a bit obscene.
They used to have selectable 4wd because of the limitiations of the diffs binding etc. Not for better fuel economy. It makes no odds if you only drive two wheels you still have all the drag of 4 driveshafts, 3 diffs and all the extra weight which all effects economy if driven or not.
Which is why any 4x4 worth more than a tenner will have freewheeling hubs, meaning that you don't drag the diff and transfer box gears around with you.
Soldato
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Top Gear test would have been the older Rover developed freelander so i doubt thats a reflection on modern 4x4.
Are the NCAP ratings not based on car size anyway so a 3 star 4x4 may well be safer than a 4 star hatch? With the weight of the thing hitting something on the road that has the inertia effect of a concrete block is less likely than in a fiesta anyway.
Are the NCAP ratings not based on car size anyway so a 3 star 4x4 may well be safer than a 4 star hatch? With the weight of the thing hitting something on the road that has the inertia effect of a concrete block is less likely than in a fiesta anyway.
Just using it as an example i could back up. Just been on the NCAP website. The Range Rover is naturally better than a Freelander but so far is worse than a focus, Golf, Megan, Corolla, 308, 307 etc etc in the small car section. In the larger car section unless you are in a vectra, 406 or an old C-class you are also going to be better off and this is just looking at adults. If look at pedestrians the Range Rover is naturally a complete fail and for some reason there is no value for children so i cant comment on that.
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Soldato
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Old Style Range Rover = win
Everything else 4x4 = fail/loose/rubbish/getofftheroadasap
Everything else 4x4 = fail/loose/rubbish/getofftheroadasap
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I have to say... 4x4s such as the X5 seem fairly pointless apart from perhaps the elevated driving position. May as well leave them as RWD/FWD for all the good it does.
My Bosses X5:
Front wheel at full articulation!
Now 'proper' 4x4 where you can actually do something that you cant do with other types of vehicle is more my cup of tea.
I prefer the more 'agricultural' look!
There is a saying down here. If you want to go out bush then take a Landcruiser or a Land Rover... if you want to come back then take the Landcruiser
My Bosses X5:
Front wheel at full articulation!
Now 'proper' 4x4 where you can actually do something that you cant do with other types of vehicle is more my cup of tea.
I prefer the more 'agricultural' look!
There is a saying down here. If you want to go out bush then take a Landcruiser or a Land Rover... if you want to come back then take the Landcruiser
I understand it better now
To be honest it sounds to me like there are two/three camps;
1) Plain jealousy in the way of the fact they can afford to have such a luxurious "wasteful" vehicle.
2) Annoyance at the green credentials of these vehicles, and as such this should be directed at ANY inefficient vehicles, regardless of the size/shape/drive system.
3) Bandwagon jumpers, with no basis for their opinion.
I don't like them, mainly because they really obstruct your vision if you drive a fairly low car, and the fact that they do tend to cause obstructions more than normal cars when parked due to width. I also don't think they are as practical as an estate car for lugging a few people or loads around.
That said I fully defend peoples right to own and drive them, as long as they get the crappy things out of my way.
That said I fully defend peoples right to own and drive them, as long as they get the crappy things out of my way.
I understand it better now
To be honest it sounds to me like there are two/three camps;
1) Plain jealousy in the way of the fact they can afford to have such a luxurious "wasteful" vehicle.
2) Annoyance at the green credentials of these vehicles, and as such this should be directed at ANY inefficient vehicles, regardless of the size/shape/drive system.
3) Bandwagon jumpers, with no basis for their opinion.
I don't really like 4x4s but not for the above reasons. I'm not jealous of them because I don't think they do anything that a decent saloon cant do. I'm not jumping on the green argument because I think it's irrelevant and I know a lot of 4x4s aren't much worse off than other cars.
I don't like 4x4s mainly because they seem to be driven by complete cocks or idiots and I have seen very little to convince me otherwise. Occasioanlly you see them driven sensibly but it seems that at least in this area, 4x4s are dirven only by two gorups of people; those who are over aggressive and use their 4x4s as a weapon,c harging around, bullying their way through traffic and generally driving like *********. The other type are those who seem to not be able to handle the larger vehicle and spend all day slowing up other traffic while they negotiate obstacles at slower than walking speed.
Edit: Forgot to answer your questions in the OP. I have never driven one but I have been in one and one of my best friends had driving experience of one. His father bought one (company car....Freelander 2) and before he had a car, my friend would just borrow his dads when he could. The previous company car was a 407 which was pretty nice but the Freelander was just horrible. Ive never been a big fan of 4x4s but I thought I'd keep an open mind when he came to pick me up in it. I shouldn't have bothered. I was expecting tons of interior space; it was no better than a saloon. The interior itself was not particularly nice either. As for driving it, my friend hated it. Not only was it so stupidly outsized that parking it anywhere was a problem, he had trouble turning around in my narrow street, he claimed it was slow, handled like a boat and generally felt horrible. The driving position was uncomfortable. It was basically just a big, unwieldy, slow car. The only possible advantage that could be derived from it was a high seating position, but this isn't something I miss when driving smaller cars.
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And what most people forget is that those who have X5's/RR Sports etc and use them for the school run, will not use them for much else, other than a couple of shopping trips a week or going to see a friend.
If you're doing so few miles, why not have something bigger & more powerful.
Why not attack all those who have diesel Mondeos or Vectras and drive them up and down a motorway all day, covering 10x the mileage of an average Chelsea-tractor 4x4 in a year!
I think it's jealousy. These large softroaders look big and flashy and have some presence - the people who complain often drive smaller/older cars... classic jealousy case!
Me & the GF very nearly bought an L-reg Shogun last week (and we would have done if i wasn't sold) to replace her pretty economical Mazda 323 - she does naff all miles, so a increase in fuel consumption won't hurt as much!
If you're doing so few miles, why not have something bigger & more powerful.
Why not attack all those who have diesel Mondeos or Vectras and drive them up and down a motorway all day, covering 10x the mileage of an average Chelsea-tractor 4x4 in a year!
I think it's jealousy. These large softroaders look big and flashy and have some presence - the people who complain often drive smaller/older cars... classic jealousy case!
Me & the GF very nearly bought an L-reg Shogun last week (and we would have done if i wasn't sold) to replace her pretty economical Mazda 323 - she does naff all miles, so a increase in fuel consumption won't hurt as much!
How much wider is an X5 compared to a 5 series?
Also, the view obstruction of view cant really be complained about. there are more than enough vans out there or cars with things blocking the view through the vehicle.
Van's are needed though, people have every right to own a 4x4, but surely a Mini is more practical shopping trolley and hardly uncomfortable - plus they are totally classless (in a Defender & Mondeo kind of way)