Driver fined for smoking in van

[Entai]

place of work implies a static place of work over a longer period of time. not wherever your job happens to be that day.

With regard to car insurance these are usually the terms;

“Private Use: Use of your car for social, domestic and pleasure purposes and
incidental business use where you are not using your car during your full-time, part-time or casual working period as an integral means of earning your income. [The term earning your income is defined as being required to use your private vehicle as part of your employment conditions].

Business Use: Use of your car during your full-time, part-time or casual working period as an integral means of earning your income that you have told us about and we have agreed to cover. Business Use also includes social, domestic and pleasure use. ”

The phrases do vary slightly ffrom one insurer to another, but in general those are the conditions.


In this case the decorator cannot do his work without the vehicle, (he cannot carry his equipment to his place of work without the van), therefore the use of the vehicle is integral to his job, therefore he should have his van insured for business use.

 

[Scania]

place of work implies a static place of work over a longer period of time. not wherever your job happens to be that day.

What about agency workers who rarely work at the same place?

In this case the decorator cannot do his work without the vehicle, (he cannot carry his equipment to his place of work without the van), therefore the use of the vehicle is integral to his job, therefore he should have his van insured for business use.

I cannot carry all of the crap I take to work with me without my car, and therefore have to use it to get to work.

Just because you have to use the vehicle to carry work related stuff does not make it integral with the job.

Nazis tbh.

 

[StevenG]

To be honest i think its fair that people shouldnt be able to smoke in the workplace, building or vehicle.

The ban is there for a reason to remove the exposure to smoke if your a non smoker.

although i think the ban has pushed more people outside into the *Public* so as a side affect more people are exposed to it walking past the smoking people.

this is quite bad in pubs... the amount of bars and clubs there are in town is stupid and always have people standing outside smoking as i walk past which annoys me.

anyway mini rand over.. i do think its fair though.

StevenG

 

[Abraham]

So if this guy had two different jobs in a day and he drove between them that's personal use?
I know I had to have business on my last policy because I frequently went between sites, because I was going work to work rather than work to or from home it counts as business use.
While yes if he only every does one job a day I'd agree that he was borderline personal/commuting use, I cant see this being the case and so he should have business use.
Although that being said, I dont see the relevance of his insurance on whether it's a company vehicle or not, surely that comes down to the ownership of the vehicle, I dont smoke but if I got fined for smoking in my private car between sites in my old job I'd have kicked up a massive fuss.

 

[Eddie182]

As far as I'm aware the law was pretty simple, if a buisness vehicle is used by other people (driver or passenger) then the smoking ban applys just as it does in a fixed place of work. If you are the SOLE user of the vehicle and nbody else EVER uses it then you may smoke in the vehicle.

Obviously many companies choose to flat out ban smoking in their vehicles, the MOD has done for years as have all other govt agencies, but as long as you are the sole user there is no law stating that you can't smoke.

It says exactly this at the bottom of the article. As far as I can see this very much applies in this case, so the fine should be refunded and a personal apology given by the retard who issued it. Personally I'd sack whoever issued it and fine them for being stupid, but hey that's just me.

 

[semi-pro waster]

I cannot carry all of the crap I take to work with me without my car, and therefore have to use it to get to work.

Just because you have to use the vehicle to carry work related stuff does not make it integral with the job.

Nazis tbh.

While I don't particularly agree with the instant case (or rather I don't think it necessary to have fined the chap when a warning could have been used) if you require the vehicle to get to work (i.e. there is no other option) then it is integral to your job. If you cannot make it to your workplace and the job is one that cannot be done through homeworking then the vehicle is integral to the job because you wouldn't have the job without it - that doesn't automatically make it a business vehicle in that the company doesn't pay for it but we are well into the territory of splitting hairs here.

 

[Scania]

While I don't particularly agree with the instant case (or rather I don't think it necessary to have fined the chap when a warning could have been used) if you require the vehicle to get to work (i.e. there is no other option) then it is integral to your job. If you cannot make it to your workplace and the job is one that cannot be done through homeworking then the vehicle is integral to the job because you wouldn't have the job without it - that doesn't automatically make it a business vehicle in that the company doesn't pay for it but we are well into the territory of splitting hairs here.

Oh I agree.

I work nights, start @ 2PM ish when I could get public transport (although all of my related crap would be an issue!) but, I finish @ around 5AM when theres no public transport, so I have to use the car.

So yes, its integral in some respect, but hardly comes under Business use I'd guess?

What puzzles me is why he stopped for a "Council Official", unless its a Copper in uniform, I stop for nobody.

 

[Abraham]

Oh I agree.

I work nights, start @ 2PM ish when I could get public transport (although all of my related crap would be an issue!) but, I finish @ around 5AM when theres no public transport, so I have to use the car.

So yes, its integral in some respect, but hardly comes under Business use I'd guess?

What puzzles me is why he stopped for a "Council Official", unless its a Copper in uniform, I stop for nobody.

I'd imagine it was either a traffic warden or "Community Enforcement Officer" as they're now called in manchester, traffic wardens with the power to issue fixed penalty notices for all sorts, from littering to smoking in a vehicle

 

[Morba]

Oh I agree.

I work nights, start @ 2PM ish when I could get public transport (although all of my related crap would be an issue!) but, I finish @ around 5AM when theres no public transport, so I have to use the car.

So yes, its integral in some respect, but hardly comes under Business use I'd guess?

What puzzles me is why he stopped for a "Council Official", unless its a Copper in uniform, I stop for nobody.

Do you need all your stuff to drive a lorry or is it a case of you take stuff with you (food, clothing) etc?

 

[Pixel]

"It not my place of work - I decorate houses not vans."

 

[aslco]

fine him for smoking anyway, we already do it when they buy each box.

 

[Entai]

Oh I agree.

So yes, its integral in some respect, but hardly comes under Business use I'd guess?

Really you should tell your insurance company how you use your car and then it is up to them to set the correct premium and type of insurance.

 

[pitchfork]

I don't get what the hatred on smoking is on this forum.

"fine him for smoking, blah blah blah"

it's his van, he paid for the van, he can smoke in his van as it's a PRIVATE vehicle not an enclosed public place. Not a shared company car.
Thats like banning someone from smoking in their own house, it's bad enough you can't smoke in the pub any more.

 

[Morba]

hatred? how many people have said he should be fined for smoking in the van?

anyway, smoking is disgusting, you stink :]

 

[Pixel]

I don't get what the hatred on smoking is on this forum.

A lot of members on this forum treat smokers almost like they're paedophiles, rapists and serial killers. Shame on smokers for spending money on a product made from tobacco, they should be shot and have their hands cut off. It's quite funny really.

 

[Doonhamer]

Thats like banning someone from smoking in their own house

You do realise this already happens? If you have a workman coming to your house your not meant to smoke in it for 24 hours before or they can refuse to enter.

 

[Scania]

Do you need all your stuff to drive a lorry or is it a case of you take stuff with you (food, clothing) etc?

I carry around with me a large box that contains about 200 A-Z's, Kettle, DVD Player, Voltage dropper (24V - 12V), DVD's, Gloves, bulbs, Fuses, etc etc etc
99% of the time I don't need most if any of it, the one time I leave the box at home, or in the car, I find myself needing my kent A-Z or whatever.

Sods law tbh!

Really you should tell your insurance company how you use your car and then it is up to them to set the correct premium and type of insurance.

I have (given my profession, the last thing I want is points on my licence for some daft insurance **** up!) they confirmed to me that I am correct to have my policy as a private car.

My work vehicle is a 44ton HGV thats owned & insured by my employers,so my car insurance is not exactly an issue.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

the highway code does not equal the law.

I'm no expert and its been a very long time since I passed my test but I really thought it was.

 

[Vampire]

I'm no expert and its been a very long time since I passed my test but I really thought it was.

Not quite, the road traffic act is law, and the highway code is more a guideline of what to do (or not do) in order to not fall foul of the road traffic act.

My solicitor explained that to me once, while I was preparing to be hauled over hot coals by the beak.

I don't know if it's been said, but everone's assuming its his private vehicle. If he's a registered sole trader then it may well be, but if he had his own limited company (as I do), then it's highly likely the van belongs to the company rather than to him (in law). Bearing in mind the benefits to having the van owned by the company, i'd be amazed if that was not the case.

Even if you own the company, the company owns the van, therefore the rules apply.

 

[[TW]Fox]

The guy is quite clearly a fool - 'I dont use my car for work, just to get to and from jobs'

Nice contradiction there.