AMD Cinema 2.0 : New real time extened video

titaniumx3 · 16 Aug 2008 at 21:24

Is this a realtime video run on ATi graphics cards, or just some prerendered tripe?

gurusan · 16 Aug 2008 at 21:25

pretty sure it's realtime...

Will be cool to use as a benchmark

Final8y · 16 Aug 2008 at 21:44

real-time using 2x 4870 & a 280 can not render it as it uses tesselation that ati had since to 2900xt.

Its about technical achievement not raw power & yet of course Cyber-Mav did not get that point, he never does & stuck in a 3DFX mentality with forget technically advanced features like 24bit/32bit colour in 3D & just go for raw power that gives higher FPS but don't look as good 16bit 3D which is why people jumped to other makers.
More ATI AMD Cinema 2.0 real-time
http://www.tgdaily.com/images/slideshows/200806271/ati_rt_03.jpg
http://www.tgdaily.com/images/slideshows/200806271/ati_rt_04.jpg

Oh nvidia counter real-time render which is nowhere near as realistic with its flat environment no global illumination/radiosity
http://www.techreport.com/discussions.x/15317

Even GT5 prologue looks better.
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/5683/gtss13yy7.png
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/1066/gtss2fq6.png
http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3979/gtss1dr1.png
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2008/065/942026_20080306_screen010.jpg

titaniumx3 · 16 Aug 2008 at 21:51

What does 16bit/24bit/32bit 3D mean, and whats the difference?

Final8y · 16 Aug 2008 at 21:55

titaniumx3 said:
What does 16bit/24bit/32bit 3D mean, and whats the difference?

Colour.

3Dfx would only do 16bit colour in 3D & left it too late before jumping to 24bit colour 3D.

p0rks0da · 17 Aug 2008 at 03:33

Final8y said:
Oh nvidia counter real-time render which is nowhere near as realistic with its flat environment no global illumination/radiosity
http://www.techreport.com/discussions.x/15317

That's a proof of concept real time RAY-TRACING demo though. It's not a smoke and mirrors 'wow the public' demo, it is demonstrating the technology.

If ATI were using ray-tracing in their demo it would be a fair comparison, and the demo would run in single digit fps at best, but they aren't.

Ray-tracing is used by PIXAR etc.. for a good reason, because it can create extremely accurate images in conjunction with other algoritms to create 'global illumination' (that's not a specific term for a technique btw, it describes many different algorithms). The reason it's not used in games is because it's so damn intensive, hence why the Nvidia demo is relatively basic. The key thing is that it's being rendered in real time.

Final8y · 17 Aug 2008 at 03:38

p0rks0da said:
That's a proof of concept real time RAY-TRACING demo though. It's not a smoke and mirrors 'wow the public' demo, it is demonstrating the technology.

If ATI were using ray-tracing in their demo it would be a fair comparison, and the demo would run in single digit fps at best, but they aren't.

Ray-tracing is used by PIXAR etc.. for a good reason, because it can create extremely accurate images in conjunction with other algoritms to create 'global illumination' (that's not a specific term for a technique btw, it describes many different algorithms). The reason it's not used in games is because it's so damn intensive, hence why the Nvidia demo is relatively basic. The key thing is that it's being rendered in real time.

ATI are using ray tracing in the demo.
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/38145/135/

Watch out, Larrabee: Radeon 4800 supports a 100% ray-traced pipeline using DirectX 9 PDF Print E-mail
Hardware
By Theo Valich
Friday, June 27, 2008 00:01
San Francisco (CA) – It appears that the buzz about 3D graphics has been focused on a feature that is not even integrate din today’s games – ray-tracing. Intel is beating the RT drum for its upcoming cGPU, which is still 18 months away. But it appears that Intel may be defeated in its own game, as AMD’s graphics chips are supporting a 100% ray-traced pipeline, TG Daily learned.

During AMD's recent Cinema 2.0 event, we met with representatives of a company that is currently considered to be the "it company" in Hollywood’s special effects (FX) industry. JulesWorld is plugged into the video production process of an unnamed movie studio and adopted components that are standard in the FX industry (AMD Opteron + Nvidia Quadro). Ray-tracing was an early focus of the company and we were told that JulesWorld started experimenting with a 100% ray-traced pipeline on a GPU with the arrival of ATI’s R600 (2900XT) chip. And the results are impressive.

Jules Urbach is the founder and CEO of JulesWorld, a small company that is making huge advancements in the world of movie production, harnessing the horsepower of graphics processors. And it looks like JulesWorld has a promising technology – a GPU ray-tracer and a wrap-around application for movie production.

JulesWorld will be releasing OTOY and LightScape, two distinctive technologies that could shape the future of movie and games production. The company developed a ray-tracer that uses elements of the DirectX 9 API as well as its own high-level code that uses Tessellation and anti-aliasing algorithms. Urbach told us that ray-tracing in real time became a reality with the Radeon 2900XT – which was used for a series of trailers for last summer's hit-move Transformers.

And notice the picture are from what i posted before in the link.

p0rks0da · 17 Aug 2008 at 03:47

Final8y said:
ATI are using ray tracing in the demo.
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/38145/135/

And notice the picture are from what i posted before in the link.

That guy is talking about using ray-tracing in movie production (Transformers) i can't see anywhere that they mention the Ruby demo doing real time raytracing. There is no mention of ray tracing at all in AMD's press release for Cinema 2.0:

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543~126630,00.html

muon · 17 Aug 2008 at 03:49

p0rks0da said:
That guy is talking about using ray-tracing in movie production (Transformers) i can't see anywhere that they mention the Ruby demo doing real time raytracing. There is no mention of ray tracing at all in AMD's press release for Cinema 2.0:

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543~126630,00.html

In terms of performance, the Radeon 2900XT 1GB rendered Transformers scenes in 20-30 frames per second, in 720p resolution and no Anti-Aliasing. With the Radeon 3870, the test scene jumped to 60 fps, with a drop to 20 fps when the proprietary Anti-Aliasing algorithm was applied. Urbach mentioned that the Radeon 4870 hits the same 60 fps – and stays at that level with Anti-Aliasing (a ray-tracer is not expecting more than 60 fps.) JulesWorld’s technology also works on Nvidia GeForce 8800 cards and above, but the lack of a tessellation unit causes a bit more work on the ray-tracer side.

p0rks0da · 17 Aug 2008 at 03:55

ghost101, that quote is talking about rendering Transformers scenes, not the Ruby demo.

If the Ruby demo is performing true ray tracing in real time, then that's excellent, but i can't find any info to say that it is.

muon · 17 Aug 2008 at 03:56

p0rks0da said:
ghost101, that quote is talking about rendering Transformers scenes, not the Ruby demo.

If the Ruby demo is performing true ray tracing in real time, then that's excellent, but i can't find any info to say that it is.

Yes, but we've all seen Transformers right? If the hd4870 can render those scenes at 60fps, I'm impressed. taking that into account, its not a stretch at all to guess that the ruby demo is raytraces. Also, it makes little sense for tgdaily to include the demo in their article otherwise.

p0rks0da · 17 Aug 2008 at 04:11

Just found some interesting info here:

http://ompf.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=882&start=50

Read through the comments section, it seems that there is extreme confusion over whether this demo is running true real time raytracing, or a hybrid approach of some sort (some elements precomputed amongst other 'hacks'). There is even a question over whether or not Transformers used true ray tracing since there are scenes where aliasing can be seen in shadows indicating that they actually used shadow maps.

http://www.techcrunch.com/wp-content/otoy12.png

p0rks0da · 17 Aug 2008 at 04:36

In fact reading through all the comments (there's a lot!) it sounds like there are probably numerous hacks going on.

(i'm not an Nvidia fanboy btw, i just think AMD may be economical with the truth as far as this demo goes).

Final8y · 17 Aug 2008 at 10:34

p0rks0da said:
ghost101, that quote is talking about rendering Transformers scenes, not the Ruby demo.

If the Ruby demo is performing true ray tracing in real time, then that's excellent, but i can't find any info to say that it is.

open your eyes! it does not need to be spelled out for you as the rubydemo pictures are in the same article or do you need real-time to be plastered on every pic in a real-time tracing article as if context is not enough.

Final8y · 17 Aug 2008 at 10:36

p0rks0da said:
In fact reading through all the comments (there's a lot!) it sounds like there are probably numerous hacks going on.

(i'm not an Nvidia fanboy btw, i just think AMD may be economical with the truth as far as this demo goes).

Its does not matter what going on under the hood as your taking NV as being what it says with out objection while having access to nether the NV or ATI demo.

Final8y · 17 Aug 2008 at 10:40

p0rks0da said:
Just found some interesting info here:

http://ompf.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=882&start=50

Read through the comments section, it seems that there is extreme confusion over whether this demo is running true real time raytracing, or a hybrid approach of some sort (some elements precomputed amongst other 'hacks'). There is even a question over whether or not Transformers used true ray tracing since there are scenes where aliasing can be seen in shadows indicating that they actually used shadow maps.

http://www.techcrunch.com/wp-content/otoy12.png

Purely conjecture from forum members like your self because they find it hard that it could be true & are going to great lengths to suggest other possibilities.

And at the end of the day if i can play games looking like the ruby demo then i really don't care for what tricks may of been used.

queamin · 17 Aug 2008 at 10:46

Final8y said:
Its does not matter what going on under the hood as your taking NV as being what it says with out objection while having access to nether the NV or ATI demo.

Agreed

Talrinys · 17 Aug 2008 at 10:47

How is this even remotely interesting when they don't release the demo? At least the Medusa Nvidia demo is public and runs very smoothly, if they are so confident in this why don't they go ahead and get it on their download page?

Steedie · 17 Aug 2008 at 10:48

The model for Ruby is shocking :/ lol

Final8y · 17 Aug 2008 at 10:49

Talrinys said:
How is this even remotely interesting when they don't release the demo? At least the Medusa Nvidia demo is public and runs very smoothly, if they are so confident in this why don't they go ahead and get it on their download page?

Best they finish the 4870 CF drivers first