If Russia declared war on the United Kingdom....

[Rybo89]

Simply not true.

We may have best army in world but were tiny, there's no way we could handle Russia if they gave us everything they've got.

Like someone said earlier on in thread, i wouldn't expect anything from America because what have they got to gain by helping us, remember we lick there's, they don't lick are's.

 

[Burnsy2023]

Simply not true.

It depends how any attack would be carried out. Nuclear weapons wouldn't be used on a first strike. It'd most likely be carried out via a series of airstrikes which we would have reasonable resources to defend against, especially as Norway is a NATO member and would therefore help when aircraft enter their airspace as they have done recently; as well as other EU and NATO forces. As for a naval strike again, we'd be well suited to defend, although again, we'd probably need help of NATO or other EU forces due to the number of Russian submaries. The only way they could cause heavy damage is a long campaign of economic warefare which wouldn't be easy due to EU and US interferance.

Whilst Russia has huge land forces, in this day and age, it'd be very hard for them to deploy them in a way that was effective.

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

Like someone said earlier on in thread, i wouldn't expect anything from America because what have they got to gain by helping us, remember we lick there's, they don't lick are's.

What about their legal obligations under NATO? The US wouldn't have an option.

Burnsy

 

[Glaucus]

Just out of interest- not understanding much about the magnitude of a nuclear explosion.... but how many "average sized" (if there is such a thing) nuclear icbm would be required to destroy the UK?

For the uk. We have the trident system. which is either 100killaton or 350kilaton. Both of which are very small nukes. The 350kilaton have a total destruction radius of .32 km, but the death area is a lot larger. However each missile can carry 12 but limited to 8 warheads due to a treaty.

But a 25MegaTon

25 Megaton Air Blast: Pressure Damage

Radius of destructive circle: 6.5 miles
12 pounds per square inch

The remains of some buildings' foundations are visible. Some of the strongest buildings -- those made of reinforced, poured concrete -- are still standing. Ninety-eight percent of the population within this area are dead.

Radius: 10.7 miles
5 psi

Virtually everything is destroyed between the 12 and 5 psi rings. The walls of typical multi-story buildings, including apartment buildings, are completely blown out. As you move from the center toward the 5 psi ring there are more structural skeletons of buildings standing. Single-family residences within this this area have been completely blown away -- only their foundations remain. Fifty percent of the population between the 12 and 5 psi rings are dead. Forty percent are injured.

Radius: 20 miles
2 psi

Any single-family residences that are not completely destroyed are heavily damaged. The windows of office buildings have been blown away, as have some of their walls. The contents of these buildings' upper floors, including the people who were working there, are scattered on the street. A substantial amount of debris clutters the entire area. Five percent of the population between the 5 and 2 psi rings are dead. Forty-five percent are injured.

Radius: 30.4 miles
1 psi

Residences are moderately damaged. Commercial buildings have sustained minimal damage. Twenty-five percent of the population between the 2 and 1 psi rings are injured, mainly by flying glass and debris. Many others have been injured from thermal radiation -- the heat generated by the blast. The remaining seventy-five percent are unhurt.

NOTE: This information has been drawn mainly from "The Effects of Nuclear War" (Washington: Office of Technology Assessment, Congress of the United States, 1979). The zones of destruction described on this page are broad generalizations and do not take into account factors such as weather and geography of the target.

And for comparison

1 Megaton Surface Blast: Pressure Damage


The fission bomb detonated over Hiroshima had an explosive blast equivalent to 12,500 tons of TNT. A 1 megaton hydrogen bomb, hypothetically detonated on the earth's surface, has about 80 times the blast power of that 1945 explosion.

Radius of destructive circle: 1.7 miles
12 pounds per square inch

At the center lies a crater 200 feet deep and 1000 feet in diameter. The rim of this crater is 1,000 feet wide and is composed of highly radioactive soil and debris. Nothing recognizable remains within about 3,200 feet (0.6 miles) from the center, except, perhaps, the remains of some buildings' foundations. At 1.7 miles, only some of the strongest buildings -- those made of reinforced, poured concrete -- are still standing. Ninety-eight percent of the population in this area are dead.

Radius: 2.7 miles
5 psi

Virtually everything is destroyed between the 12 and 5 psi rings. The walls of typical multi-story buildings, including apartment buildings, have been completely blown out. The bare, structural skeletons of more and more buildings rise above the debris as you approach the 5 psi ring. Single-family residences within this this area have been completely blown away -- only their foundations remain. Fifty percent of the population between the 12 and 5 psi rings are dead. Forty percent are injured.

Radius: 4.7 miles
2 psi

Any single-family residences that have not been completely destroyed are heavily damaged. The windows of office buildings have been blown away, as have some of their walls. The contents of these buildings' upper floors, including the people who were working there, are scattered on the street. A substantial amount of debris clutters the entire area. Five percent of the population between the 5 and 2 psi rings are dead. Forty-five percent are injured.

Radius: 7.4 miles
1 psi

Residences are moderately damaged. Commercial buildings have sustained minimal damage. Twenty-five percent of the population between the 2 and 1 psi rings have been injured, mainly by flying glass and debris. Many others have been injured from thermal radiation -- the heat generated by the blast. The remaining seventy-five percent are unhurt.

NOTE: This information has been drawn mainly from "The Effects of Nuclear War" (Washington: Office of Technology Assessment, Congress of the United States, 1979). The zones of destruction described on this page are broad generalizations and do not take into account factors such as weather and geography of the target.

1 Megaton Surface Blast: Fallout




One of the effects of nuclear weapons detonated on or near the earth's surface is the resulting radioactive fallout. Immediately after the detonation, a great deal of earth and debris, made radioactive by the blast, is carried high into the atmosphere, forming a mushroom cloud. The material drifts downwind and gradually falls back to earth, contaminating thousands of square miles. This page describes the fallout pattern over a seven-day period.

Assumptions
Wind speed: 15 mph
Wind direction: due east
Time frame: 7 days

3,000 Rem*
Distance: 30 miles
Much more than a lethal dose of radiation. Death can occur within hours of exposure. About 10 years will need to pass before levels of radioactivity in this area drop low enough to be considered safe, by U.S. peacetime standards.

900 Rem
Distance: 90 miles
A lethal dose of radiation. Death occurs from two to fourteen days.

300 Rem
Distance: 160 miles
Causes extensive internal damage, including harm to nerve cells and the cells that line the digestive tract, and results in a loss of white blood cells. Temporary hair loss is another result.

90 Rem
Distance: 250 miles
Causes a temporary decrease in white blood cells, although there are no immediate harmful effects. Two to three years will need to pass before radioactivity levels in this area drop low enough to be considered safe, by U.S. peacetime standards.

*Rem: Stands for "roentgen equivalent man." This is a measurement used to quantify the amount of radiation that will produce certain biological effects.

NOTE: This information has been drawn mainly from "The Effects of Nuclear War" (Washington: Office of Technology Assessment, Congress of the United States, 1979). The zones of destruction described on this page are broad generalizations and do not take into account factors such as weather and geography of the target.

See damage from another blast or learn more about fallout and other effects of a nuclear explosion.

 

[Burnsy2023]

For the uk. We have the trident system. which is either 100killaton or 350kilaton. Both of which are very small nukes. The 350kilaton have a total destruction radius of .32 km, but the death area is a lot larger. However each missile can carry 12 but limited to 8 warheads due to a treaty.

But a 25MegaTon

In other words, one or two would be sufficient to preempt our surrender.

Burnsy

 

[suitcase]

Right, hmmmm- so if one of our tridents is only between 100-350 kilaton, one of them wouldn't even take out the whole of London? (when I say take out, I mean the intial explosion wouldn't kill everyone?)

 

[Glaucus]

In other words, one or two would be sufficient to preempt our surrender.

Burnsy

I think we would retaliate with all available nukes.

But the mind boggles at the damage even our small ones make. Let alone the large ones America and Russia have.

 

[meghatronic]

Right, hmmmm- so if one of our tridents is only between 100-350 kilaton, one of them wouldn't even take out the whole of London? (when I say take out, I mean the intial explosion wouldn't kill everyone?)

It's not the point. One or two at London would cripple the country.

(it actually wouldn't... but, you know.... population panic etc...)

 

[Zefan]

Right, hmmmm- so if one of our tridents is only between 100-350 kilaton, one of them wouldn't even take out the whole of London? (when I say take out, I mean the intial explosion wouldn't kill everyone?)

Our focus is on using many tactical nukes that'd be able to take out industry/military bases.

Huge multi megaton bombs are not cost effective, they give poor bang for their buck.

 

[Glaucus]

Right, hmmmm- so if one of our tridents is only between 100-350 kilaton, one of them wouldn't even take out the whole of London? (when I say take out, I mean the intial explosion wouldn't kill everyone?)

No. but that .32 is the 12 pounds per square inch ring and each missile can carry 8 of these warheads.

 

[lemonkettaz]

If things got that bad i'd goto war. But things would have to be really bad for Russia to declare war on the UK.

That would be some sort of worldwide war, so you may as well just go.

The world would be a really bad place to live if you werent fighting and what sort of alternative would that be?

the situation would have to be worse than hell

 

[suitcase]

Ah- ok. Powerful enough then!

 

[meghatronic]

Ah- ok. Powerful enough then!

Indeed.

A nuke is so powerful - they don't even need to be used now to be effective.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

We may have best army in world but were tiny, there's no way we could handle Russia if they gave us everything they've got.

We wouldn't need to thanks to the NATO treaty. If Russia declared war on the UK minimal Russia military would actually get to the UK.

The sea would be well protected. Land invasion isnt possible, and they wont be able to land their Antonovs anywhere.

 

[Burnsy2023]

I think we would retaliate with all available nukes.

But the mind boggles at the damage even our small ones make. Let alone the large ones America and Russia have.

But what good would that do? Our population would be in chaos, our infrastructure reduced to rubble and our government possibly non functional.

Once that first strike has been called it's game over for us. We'd have most important priorities then trying to fight back.

Burnsy

 

[Burnsy2023]

Huge multi megaton bombs are not cost effective, they give poor bang for their buck.

I chuckled at that

Burnsy

 

[Glaucus]

But what good would that do? Our population would be in chaos, our infrastructure reduced to rubble and our government possibly non functional.

Once that first strike has been called it's game over for us. We'd have most important priorities then trying to fight back.

Burnsy

Thing is they would be tracked so the goverment should still be working and our birds flying before they detonate.
The idea is to try and either stop them or to make it imposable for them to launch more.

A country can easily recover from a few, just look at Japan.

But the way these things work. if one was launched by either side. You would be looking at two desolate countrys and possible destruction of earth. Depending how true/accurate a nuclear winter is.

 

[Klo]

Well it would be the start of WW3, which would not be good at all. At first, I'm not sure whether Russia would risk nuclear attack on England, but what would happen (hopefully) , is that we'd get America and Europe on our side, which should help even it up a bit. If it did come to an nuclear war, England and France are the only European countries with direct nuclear capabilities, although under NATO, the US gave Belgium, Germany, Italy, Netherlands and Turkey nuclear weapons to store and deploy when needed.
It would certainly be interesting to see who won.

Me? I'd be off to stay with family in South Africa, hopefully completely out of the way

 

[Glaucus]

Me? I'd be off to stay with family in South Africa, hopefully completely out of the way

Id be of to north canada/alaska..

Africa would probably be invaded by who ever survive as it would be some of the only natural resource ripe land with low radioactivity.

 

[lemonkettaz]

Russia would be taken out completeley. If they launched against the UK they'd have most other nuclear states launching at them.... so they could probably get their attack in first but after that they would be screwed.

Even if half of their nuclear equipment works