FAO: Pedigree Dog Owners

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Pedigree Dogs Exposed - Tuesday 19th 9pm BBC1 - http://www.tvguide.co.uk/detail.asp?id=22170565

Investigation into the health of thoroughbred dogs, examining the level of inherited disease and other welfare issues concerning man's best friend. Featuring testimony from experts, the programme reveals the surprising historical factors that have contributed to problems in some breeds and explores what could be done to tackle serious and debilitating conditions

This will be pretty upsetting for most dog owners.

It basically tells you how people have been breeding in cancer and other deformities into dogs through unchecked genetic lines. Breading Mother and Son together, Father and Daughter and so on.

How breeders are changing the way a breed of dog looks to fit the show ring environment and the effect its having on the dog its self.

The Kennel Club have issued a statement as they seem to be the people in the main firing line.

Statement Here - http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/1976/23/5/3

Please watch this if your a dog owner.
 
One of the main ideas of a pedigree dog is that the lineage can be easily traced so breedings can be kept sufficiently separated genetically and any ill-traits identified and bed out.
Of Course, there can be problems. Things like deaf Dalmations - but this is a case of a stupid Supply and demand issue after a lame Disney movie and non-pedigree dogs.

In general, pedigree dogs are the way to go but pedigree breeders should take care. And no one should watch crufts or other dog shows that create such mutant traits in dogs.

Get a working dog and you should have no problems: bright, alert, intelligent, keen, in
 
In general, pedigree dogs are the way to go but pedigree breeders should take care. And no one should watch crufts or other dog shows that create such mutant traits in dogs.

Get a working dog and you should have no problems: bright, alert, intelligent, keen, in

Best advice you could give anyone wanting to get a dog.
 
Best advice you could give anyone wanting to get a dog.

Wrong, we have had several pedigree dogs in our family over the last 20 years ranging from great danes to some tiny little thing whose name eludes me. We have also had more mongrel dogs, in nearly every case the mongrels have been better behaved and had far fewer health issues.

As for getting a working dog being the way to go, that is true as long as you don't leave them alone for long periods of time and have as much energy as the dogs themselves. As working dogs they need constant exercise and stimulation otherwise you can kiss goodbye to your furniture :D

If I had to choose between a £500 pedigree and a £65 mongrol from a home, it would be the mongrel every time.
 
As for getting a working dog being the way to go, that is true as long as you don't leave them alone for long periods of time and have as much energy as the dogs themselves. As working dogs they need constant exercise and stimulation otherwise you can kiss goodbye to your furniture :D

No offence, but if you train your dogs properly, they'll never chew anything other then what you allow.
 
No offence, but if you train your dogs properly, they'll never chew anything other then what you allow.

None taken, however, no matter how well you train them, if you leave a high energy intelligent dog alone for 10 hours while you go to work they will get bored and do something.

Your only option is to get up early in the morning and take them out and tire them out as much as possible before you leave them. As well as leaving them something to do.

We have had several working dogs, in fact I have a mongrel who is half working dog right now. Well trained but still full of energy!
 
None taken, however, no matter how well you train them, if you leave a high energy intelligent dog alone for 10 hours while you go to work they will get bored and do something.

Regardless of the type of dog, leaving them for 10 hours would cause that behaviour.

Your only option is to get up early in the morning and take them out and tire them out as much as possible before you leave them. As well as leaving them something to do.

We have had several working dogs, in fact I have a mongrel who is half working dog right now. Well trained but still full of energy!
Whats wrong with a dog full of energy? I'd rather have a healthy active and alert working dog, then show dog.
 
It's well known that the breeding of pedigrees causes health problems, which is why pet insurance is cheaper for cross breeds.
 
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my other dog can be left for that time with no problems at all, however the working dog can't.

I never said there was anything wrong with getting a working dog over a show dog, my point was that working dogs are not always ideal and that I would rather have a mongrel over a pedigree!
 
What haven't bred of one of our Cavalier King Charles Spaniels because a series of test we had done showed up showed up a heart defect that is common in the bread.
 
What haven't bred of one of our Cavalier King Charles Spaniels because a series of test we had done showed up showed up a heart defect that is common in the bread.

Thats responsible breeding. This show is about people who do the tests, know about the issues with breed genetic problems and still go and mate them.
 
Don't confuse bad pedigree breeders with all pedigree breeders, a bit of research if you're buying a dog goes a long way.
 
Yep, as with absolutetly everything else in the world there are good people and bad people who breed dogs.

If you're going to buy a pedigree puppy the very least you should be doing is checking the hip and eye scores of the parents before agreeing to buy. Things like going to dog shows, talking to breeders and looking at the dogs there should give you an idea of what you should be aiming for if going for a pedigree dog.
 
Regardless of the type of dog, leaving them for 10 hours would cause that behaviour.

Whats wrong with a dog full of energy? I'd rather have a healthy active and alert working dog, then show dog.

There is nothing wrong with a dog full of energy but a working dog is not ideal for everyone because they either don't have the space, time or facilities to exercise them properly. You can argue that they shouldn't have a dog at all and there may be some truth in that but a collie for instance is bred for all day stamina and intelligence* so you've got to keep it very active which doesn't always make for an ideal family pet as you can't necessarily occupy it fully due to other commitments. Somewhat paradoxically perhaps a retired greyhound or whippet can make a much better family pet due to their breeding which calls for relatively short bursts of speed and they will then happily sleep until the next time for a walk although you've obviously got to watch the chase instinct particularly around small animals. Basic point is that research is needed here to find the ideal dog (if any) for your circumstances rather than general advice that may not be appropriate.

And yes, some of the breeding practices are shocking and abhorrent to those who actually respect their dogs.


*ignoring that I've met some seriously stupid ones.
 
Speaking here as someone who has owned, worked and (VERY occasionally) bred dogs since he was knee high to a grasshopper:

semi-pro-waster is entirely correct. Sorry. The pedigree dog world was started not much over 100 years ago by Jack Spratt and co. (who went on to found and run Crufts). Jack Spratt was the same gent who 'invented' dry dog food in the form of Ships' Biscuits soaked in beef stock. The 'pure breed' dogs were a fad, and a nice little earner.

The entire sorry episode was nothing to do with lineages or ensuring genetic diversity. I apologise, but that made me laugh out loud. There is more inbreeding in the world of show dogs than anywhere else bar hamsters. Not that proper line breeding is necessarily a bad thing in itself. But where you have show people blindly trying to make dogs conform to an arbitrary written 'standard' of so-called ideal, you're always going to have trouble.

Before this 19th century fashion for expensive 'pure' dogs (read: "We're rich, you're not. Aren't we superior?"), dogs were bred for virtually a single purpose: work. That could have been hunting, guarding, herding, droving or whatever. The dogs that were bred, were those that could work. Natural selection easily ensured that only the healthiest, fittest and (naturally) most physically suited dogs survived to breed.

If it couldn't catch rats and bay badgers, it wasn't bred as a terrier. If it wouldn't drove cows it wasn't bred as a farm dog. Dogs in those days had titles according to their function, not a fanciful made-up name dreamt up by a kennel club. Their form followed the job they were required to do, and it did so naturally. The most suited individuals were, naturally, those with the best physical form to achieve their role.

A prime example is the "British Bulldog". Affable as I'm sure they are, they're a monstrosity perfectly highlighting everything that's wrong with the modern 'pedigree' show dog. Some shrewd soul decided to write down what they THOUGHT a 'bull dog' should look like (and believe me it's a fanciful ideal), and then everyone bred dogs to try to match that written standard. What drivel!

Wrinkles to drain the blood away, squat to approach the bull under his horns... nonesense! There's not a working bulldog today which looks anything like this show bred monstrosity. The things can't even catch their breath, never mind two tonnes of scrub bull! That's just one example in thousands, of what breeding to an imaginary ideal does.

Every working dog man knows, form FOLLOWS function, never the other way around. Working dogs are never the easy answer as pets either. A working dog wants to do just that; work. Please don't try to tell me it's plausible (or indeed humane) to buy a working Collie, or a Spaniel, or a sight hound and lock it up in a little house all day. Such dogs (with working blood and hence instinct) strive to fulfil their role. Where do you think all those "Good Pets Gone Bad" shows come from?

"Oh noes, my spaniel ate my brand new £4,000 kitchen!!" "Oh helpz, my terrier's killed the cat next door and destroyed my Italian leather suite! I don't understandz, I walk him to the newsagents every afternoon!" :rolleyes:

Anyone breeding dogs for the sake of looks alone is going to run into trouble. You only need attend a single 'show' to see this. Dogs with extremely poor temperaments, dysplastic hips, and deformed faces (and the resultant breathing problems) walk away with ribbons, and earn thousands in stud fees. This eventually means their defective DNA is passed along.

I had one Dobermann breeder recently tell me that their most beloved show dog (out of four) had to be caged up when their own grandchildren visited. He was so aggressive he literally would attempt to all-out attack the child. "This is because he's a well bred guard breed you see".... WTF?!

I have worked with and trained police dogs, security dogs and all manner of working dogs. Even the UK's (fairly badly trained) police dogs would never be allowed to show child aggression like this. But this show dog conforms to the hype generated by the very breeders perpetuating the scam. And it's hurting not just dogs, but people too.

Depending on circumstances, the best 'breed' for you may easily be a mongrel. One of the best working dogs I ever owned was a mongrel - albeit almost by accident rather than design. A dog is what you make of it; but why begin with defective stock, AND pay 5x over the odds for it?

I've gone on very long now, but this is a subject close to my heart. I see the horror stories all too often I'm afraid. Oh well, I'll make way for the "TLDR" crowd, and the "We have pedigree dogs and they live to 8, and are great" folks.

Cheers.
 
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I have a working dog (well, from working stock anyway) and he's great fun. :D Full of energy, never turns down the offer of a walk or a biscuit. If he sees something with feathers, he'll go bananas chasing it (other than pigeons - he's a bit blasé about pigeons). On long walks through the woods in summer, you can always tell where he is because of the pheasant squawks.

One time we had to leave him in the house because we had to go out for a couple of hours. We locked everything up so he couldn't get out, so we were somewhat puzzled to see him running around outside when we returned. Turns out we'd left a single window open upstairs. He'd jumped out of a top floor window onto concrete. :eek: He wasn't injured.

He's a springer spaniel whose mother, grandmother, great grandmother, etc were all gun dogs. I know this because my aunt and uncle are the breeders. They let slip once that after we'd taken our dog away that all the holes on their lawn had stopped appearing. :p
 
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