England captaincy / possible squad

[johnyccc]

It's just another example of Capello talking the talk but when it comes to actually doing things, he makes all the same decisions/mistakes as the last 2 managers.
He conducts a circus for players to "audition" for the role, then decides there was nothing wrong with the original choice.
It's pathetic how no one is brave enough to try something new.
It's not like it can get any worst.

 

[BaZ87]

It's not a case of trying something new but a case of making the right choice. There was no reason to take the captaincy away from Terry as he done the job perfectly well; we didn't not qualify for the Euro's because he was captain, he was just unlucky to get the job under McClaren.

I'd imagine Capello gave a few players a chance so that he could see for himself who he felt would do the best job as i doubt he knew enough about all the candidates.

 

[DanH84]

don't agree myself but at the end of the day it's capello's decision to make, he's the one who has to deal with the consequences.

 

[Shamikebab]

It's just another example of Capello talking the talk but when it comes to actually doing things, he makes all the same decisions/mistakes as the last 2 managers.
He conducts a circus for players to "audition" for the role, then decides there was nothing wrong with the original choice.
It's pathetic how no one is brave enough to try something new.
It's not like it can get any worst.

I agree, it was time for a change.

 

[peetee]

we'v had the change, its a new regime.

whats the point in capello changing the captain just because it was the same captain as previous regimes?
Thats like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[johnyccc]

It's not a case of trying something new but a case of making the right choice. There was no reason to take the captaincy away from Terry as he done the job perfectly well; we didn't not qualify for the Euro's because he was captain, he was just unlucky to get the job under McClaren.

I'd imagine Capello gave a few players a chance so that he could see for himself who he felt would do the best job as i doubt he knew enough about all the candidates.

England have performed very badly for a while now.
The blame for that goes largely to the manager/players but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest a degree of responsibility has to also fall on the captain. If not, there was no reason to consider a new man for the job as it's a meaningless task.
Given how little passion we have seen from our players, how they never seem really "up" for the big, important games and given our complete failure of late, I think trying someone new is an obvious way forward.
Rio was essentially co-captain of the European champions and considered by many the best defender in the world right now.
So Cappelo had the perfect candidate to step in and freshen things up a little and send a message that he was serious about doing things his way.
As for "giving people a chance", what exactly did he expect to see from the exercise to make him consider someone other than Terry? A double hatrick from Rio?
Because to be given your "chance" in a friendly on the basis that it was only ever a one off "trial" was never going to produce any answers.
It was just a way for a weak manager to put off making a decision he is paid to make.

 

[peetee]

I dont even get how anyone can argue Rio would be a better choice than Terry, Neither is going to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and lead by example like Gerrard has does and will.
Its the managers decision, hes got a lot more credentials than all of us, and previous managers, so why cant we have a little faith for once.

 

[Shamikebab]

When has Gerrard ever lead by example in an England shirt?

 

[peetee]

When has Gerrard ever lead by example in an England shirt?

Hes done it a handful of times for England, I think last time was against urm..... Andorra perhaps, it was a 3-0...
Anyways I didnt say anything about in an England shirt, but Capello is trying to change the setup so that the players perform more like they do for clubs.

Whats Rio ever done so special in an England shirt? or Terry?
My origional post still stands, faith in management, hes got more credentials than anyone here.

 

[BaZ87]

England have performed very badly for a while now.
The blame for that goes largely to the manager/players but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest a degree of responsibility has to also fall on the captain. If not, there was no reason to consider a new man for the job as it's a meaningless task.
Given how little passion we have seen from our players, how they never seem really "up" for the big, important games and given our complete failure of late, I think trying someone new is an obvious way forward.
Rio was essentially co-captain of the European champions and considered by many the best defender in the world right now.
So Cappelo had the perfect candidate to step in and freshen things up a little and send a message that he was serious about doing things his way.

Of course a degree of responsibility falls on Terry's shoulders but an extremely small degree. His captaincy wasn't to blame for the sides failure and you also have to remember he was injured for a large amount of the last campaign.

As for the stuff about Ferdinand, i couldn't disagree any more. If he's such a good captain then why the **** has Fergie named Neville and Giggs ahead of him for the role at Utd? Imo he's not a natural leader on the pitch like Terry and based on his past antics he certainly isn't the role model that the FA would have wanted to be given the job either.

And i still don't understand why you want to make a change for changes sake

As for "giving people a chance", what exactly did he expect to see from the exercise to make him consider someone other than Terry? A double hatrick from Rio?
Because to be given your "chance" in a friendly on the basis that it was only ever a one off "trial" was never going to produce any answers.
It was just a way for a weak manager to put off making a decision he is paid to make.

He would have wanted to see how the player reacted to the responsibilty both on and off the pitch and to see whether they met the requirements to be his captain as im sure he didn't know enough about them and wasn't in a position to make his decision on who should be captain. Also im sure he didn't just look at the games when the player was given the armband but also all the others when he wasn't named captain.

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

Liverpool fans wanted Gerrard, Man United fans wanted Ferdinand and Chelsea fans wanted Terry. Capello looked at all of the candidates and obviously thought Terry was the best man for the job, end of.

 

[Rotty]

Liverpool fans wanted Gerrard, Man United fans wanted Ferdinand and Chelsea fans wanted Terry. Capello looked at all of the candidates and obviously thought Terry was the best man for the job, end of.

not sure thats true, I don't mind whether Gerrard is captain or not nut if it improved his England game like it did his Liverpool one then great, I have no objection to John Terry as captain, Ferdinand is just not a good role model so IMO totally unsuitable for the job regardless of his footbaling ability

 

[johnyccc]

And i still don't understand why you want to make a change for changes sake

Theres something to be said for the psychological effect of a fresh start after failure.
Regardless, I didn't want a change just for changes sake.
I think Rio is a worthy captain in his own right.

As for the stuff about Ferdinand, i couldn't disagree any more. If he's such a good captain then why the **** has Fergie named Neville and Giggs ahead of him for the role at Utd? Imo he's not a natural leader on the pitch like Terry

SAF's opinion is..SAF's opinion.
He went with Neville/Giggs as reward/acknowledgment of their service to the club. This happened a couple of years ago now and I would fully expect Rio to be given the armband when they retire.
When this happens, will Fergusons decision still be as relevant in your eyes to who should captain England?

he certainly isn't the role model that the FA would have wanted to be given the job either.

Both players have pretty checkered pasts. Be it speeding, infidelity etc.
Either you are prepared to give players a second chance or you discount them both. Anything else is not fair.

 

[BaZ87]

Theres something to be said for the psychological effect of a fresh start after failure.
Regardless, I didn't want a change just for changes sake.
I think Rio is a worthy captain in his own right.

We've got a new manager. That's fresh enough or should we go the whole way and drop any player that played under McClaren?

SAF's opinion is..SAF's opinion.
He went with Neville/Giggs as reward/acknowledgment of their service to the club. This happened a couple of years ago now and I would fully expect Rio to be given the armband when they retire.
When this happens, will Fergusons decision still be as relevant in your eyes to who should captain England?

If Ferdinand is named permenant captain of Utd that won't affect anything. Fergie's decision that Neville and Giggs were more suitable than him would still stand

Both players have pretty checkered pasts. Be it speeding, infidelity etc.
Either you are prepared to give players a second chance or you discount them both. Anything else is not fair.

Terry's past is not comparable to Ferdinand's and you know it. Regardless of that, the off-field stuff's secondary to their ability as captain on the pitch and imo Ferdinand isn't a natural leader where as Terry is.

 

[Nzyme]

I think Terry was the right man out of the candidates available at the moment, towards the end of last season i though he really turned himself around and i hope he can continue to improve as a leader.

What miffs me is that players aren't picked on form and are still picked by name. Two examples Robinson should be dropped and replaced with Green or Kirkland and Wheater should be in the squad and if he hasn't been picked Cappelo should be making sure that him and Richards play every under-21 game together so when they are ready they step up and we have a world class centre-half pairing strait from the off.

Oh and i still hate the fact we don't have an English man in charge, i personally think it shouldn't be aloud

Every player should be forced to learn the national anthem and belt it out before playing with hand on chest.

 

[Gilly]

It's just another example of Capello talking the talk but when it comes to actually doing things, he makes all the same decisions/mistakes as the last 2 managers.
He conducts a circus for players to "audition" for the role, then decides there was nothing wrong with the original choice.
It's pathetic how no one is brave enough to try something new.
It's not like it can get any worst.

That's a pretty stupid post. On the one hand you're criticising the England manager for trying different people in the role, and on the other you're criticising him for not being brave enough to try new things.

It's gotta be one or the other. Sounds like nothing more than sour grapes as you didn't agree with his decision.

...Kirkland...

Can't believe anyone still thinks this lad deserves a chance. How many times will he let the side down through injury? It's not his fault he's a crock but it doesn't change the fact.

 

[johnyccc]

No sir, that's a pretty stupid post!
By "trying something new" i was of course not refering to meaningless acts/silly games.
I meant making actual decisions and sticking with them.

 

[Nzyme]

Can't believe anyone still thinks this lad deserves a chance. How many times will he let the side down through injury? It's not his fault he's a crock but it doesn't change the fact.

I only used his name to emphasis my point that Robinson should be dropped until he proves himself again

 

[BaZ87]

Can't believe anyone still thinks this lad deserves a chance. How many times will he let the side down through injury? It's not his fault he's a crock but it doesn't change the fact.

Tbf to him he's actually stayed fairly injury free since leaving us.

 

[mr tommo]

If England are ever going to win anything again, Capello will be the manager that does it.