English - The most bs subject taught?

I used to hate sitting through English lessons. I could see the point in the creative writing, formal writing, spelling, punctuation, etc. But I used to hate it because I was so poor at it. But even now, two or so years on, I can see why it was and is so important to have good English skills.

I think it was snowdog that said "Making money > analysing poems' or something like that. When was the last time you saw someone making a lot of money (£40,000+) that couldn't construct a paragraph using correct grammar, spelling and punctuation? Whether or not you want to accept it, I think that pretty much everything you're taught in English lessons is more than necessary if you really want to succeed and accomplish in life. And no, I don't want to be a multimillionaire when I'm older, I want to be a guitarist. :cool: :p
 
I remember the exact moment I hated English.

We were doing some GCSE based coursework around 'An Inspector Calls', a spooky short murder mystery. The work set was to write an extra chapter at the end of the film. Now, I took this quite seriously - I like original writing. So off I went and created a dramatic confrontation between the characters showing their disbelief of what happened.

I got a D.

I wouldn't mind, but someone wrote that they were on an alien gameshow and got an A.

I can see the enjoyment some people get out of it like any other hobby or art, but its not anything that has any practical use (although transferable skills may be gained).
 
Killa_ken said:
I honestly don't understand this, why do ******* english teachers ask such retard questions like what is the context of this essay, who is the intended audience, and what is the author trying to persuade you of.

why don't they get real ******* jobs and stop asking questions to which nobody gives a flying toss about.
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To understand whether you are merely reading something or comprehending, evaluating and making a judgement on something.

From your post I can assume that none of those three goals is likely to be achieved any time soon. I'm not sure if the OP is trolling or not but I hope he isn't.
 
Nitefly said:
The coursework was to write about the characters in the book in an extra chapter. I continued along with the theme of the book.... some made it utterly stupid...
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I know what you mean. It's the most disheartening thing when you puts loads and loads of effort into an essay or piece of work, then get it handed back with a big D or E on it. Then there's people that obviously get on with the subject a lot more naturally and can get an A without even thinking about it... I think the teaching has a huge impact on what the students learn as well though. I had the most shocking English teacher at secondary school and passed with a D overall. I retook it at college and got a C with every piece of coursework being an A or above.

Thank God it's over now though. :p
 
English can be a load of mince, that much is true. Stories (no pun intended) abound where a teacher has asked what the underlying message to a novel is and then dismissed the students answer as wrong, then in a chance meeting years later the student gets to ask the author "so what did you mean in Book X?" to receive the answer "it was just a story, nothing deeper". Maybe it's an apocryphal tale, maybe it is entirely true but it is a valuable indicator that people put their own interpretations on all sorts of things and that is one of the points of English. It teaches you that there might be multiple layers to even a simple story so you do not evaluate purely at face value (cf the saying not judging a book by its cover) and encourages critical thinking.

Sure, there are successful people who can't spell, can't punctuate and wouldn't know grammar if it hit them upside the head but they are the exception rather than the rule. English may not be vital but then in that case nor is any other subject, I rather suspect you'd struggle more without a basic understanding of English (or whatever your native language is) than you would without Geography/Chemistry/Maths for instance.
 
naffa said:
I know what you mean. It's the most disheartening thing when you puts loads and loads of effort into an essay or piece of work, then get it handed back with a big D or E on it.
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effort does not equal good grades, ability does. Although obviously some effort is needed.

Nitefly said:
He said the subject, not the language.
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i also fail to see how an english lesson is not learning to use the language properly.
 
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I love to read but I hated English, I'd always be counting the minutes until I had a maths, physics or D&T period.
I guess I'm more logical and like to have a definitive answer in black and white, English is much more vague where a number of answers can actually be correct and that didn't sit well with me.
 
taz488 said:
effort does not equal good grades.
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It has nothing to do with effort or ability sometimes. I am far from good at English, but to say the alien spaceship ending was of higher ability to mine is just totally ridiculous.

Another thing which annoyed me was when studying 'To Kill A Mockingbird' - a good book. The was a question regarding the death of the dog. I wrote that it showed how Atticus was a humble symbol of triumph and great power. Again, not really mind blowing stuff. Others recieved praise for their "excellent" observation that the dog died outside the Radley house symbolising the place as madness followed by death.

Its just like... what?! It seems the more you can totally bull **** the better you do.

Personally I don't like writing namby pamby pompous crap.

Obviously thats not true to all, but its what I find to most art analysis in general.

I would much rather read a book and have own opinions rather than have to justify them to someone else who may not agree.
 
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Nitefly said:
I remember the exact moment I hated English.

We were doing some GCSE based coursework around 'An Inspector Calls', a spooky short murder mystery. The work set was to write an extra chapter at the end of the film. Now, I took this quite seriously - I like original writing. So off I went and created a dramatic confrontation between the characters showing their disbelief of what happened.

I got a D.

I wouldn't mind, but someone wrote that they were on an alien gameshow and got an A.
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Chances are they didn't read past the name on the top of the paper, if you'd swapped names with the other lad you'd have got the A.

Teaching in english is fairly cynical - but to be fair on them doing a proper job of marking is so much harder (and time consuming) than maths or science.
 
Nitefly said:
It has nothing to do with effort or ability sometimes. I am far from good at English, but to say the alien spaceship ending was of higher ability to mine is just totally ridiculous.
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I haven't read the alien spaceship ending of course but it could have been of higher ability - relatively few marks for maintaining continuity of story but there could be lots for the way the prose flowed, the language used, the creative instinct that could link an early 20th C story to an alien spaceship, the finality that it brought to the story etc etc.

That or the teacher had favourites and you weren't one of them - you can choose. :)

Nitefly said:
Another thing which annoyed me was when studying 'To Kill A Mockingbird' - a good book. The was a question regarding the death of the dog. I wrote that it showed how Atticus was a humble symbol of triumph and great power. Again, not really mind blowing stuff. Others recieved praise for their "excellent" observation that the dog died outside the Radley house symbolising the place as madness followed by death. Its just like... what?! It seems the more you can totally bull **** the better you do.

Obviously thats not true to all, but its what I find to most art analysis in general.
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It's been a long time since I've read the book but why is it not possible that the other explanations were plausible? English is subjective to a very large degree and does rely on others interpretations but if a piece of work is good then it should be blatantly obvious regardless of whether you agree with it or not.
 
Nitefly said:
It has nothing to do with effort or ability sometimes. I am far from good at English, but to say the alien spaceship ending was of higher ability to mine is just totally ridiculous.
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ask your teacher, just because it involves a space ship doesnt mean that it doesnt show the technical ability to write a story.

Nitefly said:
Another thing which annoyed me was when studying 'To Kill A Mockingbird' - a good book. The was a question regarding the death of the dog. I wrote that it showed how Atticus was a humble symbol of triumph and great power. Again, not really mind blowing stuff. Others recieved praise for their "excellent" observation that the dog died outside the Radley house symbolising the place as madness followed by death. Its just like... what?! It seems the more you can totally bull **** the better you do.
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the teacher probably has a degree in english, let them decide whos is better. its not always just about what you state, its about reasoning, why does it mean that? maybe the other person structured his argument with far better evidence? either way, i think you just dont like english.

Nitefly said:
We were doing some GCSE based coursework around 'An Inspector Calls', a spooky short murder mystery. The work set was to write an extra chapter at the end of the film. Now, I took this quite seriously - I like original writing. So off I went and created a dramatic confrontation between the characters showing their disbelief of what happened.

I got a D.

I wouldn't mind, but someone wrote that they were on an alien gameshow and got an A.
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as above really, yours must have shown less technical ability
 
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semi-pro waster said:
I haven't read the alien spaceship ending of course but it could have been of higher ability - relatively few marks for maintaining continuity of story but there could be lots for the way the prose flowed, the language used, the creative instinct that could link an early 20th C story to an alien spaceship, the finality that it brought to the story etc etc.
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I agree it could have been. But it wasn't. The guy was an idiot.

That or the teacher had favourites and you weren't one of them - you can choose. :)
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I'm willing to bet my answer was pretty terrible!

It's been a long time since I've read the book but why is it not possible that the other explanations were plausible? English is subjective to a very large degree and does rely on others interpretations but if a piece of work is good then it should be blatantly obvious regardless of whether you agree with it or not.
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I just do not get along with the idea that you can mark a subjective issue in such a way. People write such (subjective I guess) rubbish, but if its written well, it still gets a good mark. Which is fair but, I spent more time trying to make a decent opinion rather than thinking of some obscure weird link which gets praised for 'original thought'.
 
taz488 said:
ask your teacher, just because it involves a space ship doesnt mean that it doesnt show the technical ability to write a story.
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I understand that. But... it has a spaceship. I mean, really? Really?

the teacher probably has a degree in english, let them decide whos is better. its not always just about what you state, its about reasoning, why does it mean that? maybe the other person structured his argument with far better evidence? either way, i think you just dont like english.
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You are right, I don't like English as a subject.

as above really, yours must have shown less technical ability
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Probably.

I understand why people like English as it lets people be original, but its such a masterbational subject, second possibly only to philosophy. I remember joining in with a discussion about symbolism a few English undergraduates were having. Just the things they were talking about, and taking them seriously, oh my!

I'm clearly just too "logical" and set in my ways to enjoy the subject for what it is.
 
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