The fun never stops...

The whole thing with Russia of late just seems completely insane. Obviously no one wants a war with Russia and Russia would be equally stupid to want a war with the west so why all the posturing etc.

It'll never happen but the US should cut Russia in on the missile shield, sell them the technology seeing as it's purely defensive and then there will be loads more systems about ready to shoot down any nukes that anyone else launches. It might make them settle down a bit and the US would get a lot of much needed cash.

Any shield/stealth missles are a bit pointless with Russia v west, both sides have so many missiles that they would surely overwhelm any defensive against them should there be nuclear war so we might as well make an effort towards better relations.
 
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Britain canceled a scheduled set of military exercises with Georgia after Russia stated their participation would be declared an "declaration of war".

Russia has also responded to recent events in Poland and Ukraine by noting that both nations may be the target of a future nuclear attack.

It's pathetic really, Russia almost sounds childish.
 
They are just throwing their toys around and having a tantrum right now. I very much doubt they are looking to really start anything over this. Now they have a bit of money they are just trying to mark their place in the world I think, again. Although many would argue that their place is quite big enough as it is.
 
They are back on the block and simlpy showing that they won't be trampled on anymore like they were in the 90s. I definitely can see though why they are nervous about being surrounded by missile "shields" of a country that they had a long standing Cold War with.
 
Looks like its back to the days of "my bombs bigger than your bomb" and " ive got more nukes than you na na na na na so there and what you gona do about it" Childish superpower games once again.
 
The Russians actually offered their territory to host part of the US ballistic missile defence system, which would have arguably given the the system a chance of destroying any missiles launched from Iran earlier, an opportunity which the US was foolish IMHO for squandering. It's like they wanted to antagonise the Russians.

However, Russia's outrage over America's missile shield is something I also find difficult to understand. It's not oreintated against their nuclear arsenal and would never be anywhere near capable of dealing with the thousands of missiles Russia could employ in the event of an allout nuclear exchange. In short, it doesn't threaten the strategic status quo with Russia, and would only really pose a threat to countries with relatively small arsenals of nuclear tipped ballistic missiles, such as North Korea, and potentially, Iran.

You'd think, with the ever present mutual threat of international terrorism from the likes of Al-Qaeda and other hardline Islamic groups that we and Russia share, a sense of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" would prevail, yet once again, it appears that modern politicians on both sides would prefer to use the opportunity to demonstrate their short sightedness and pechant for jingoistic nationalist willy-waving instead. Common sense it would seem, really isn't that common at all.
 
people with too much money, power and time, get them on the front line or in a factory on minimum wage, giving half away in tax to pay for these "games" and we will see if they still like.
 
That nuke design sounds pretty damn good. Not that they will actually use it though.
 
They are just throwing their toys around and having a tantrum right now. I very much doubt they are looking to really start anything over this. Now they have a bit of money they are just trying to mark their place in the world I think, again. Although many would argue that their place is quite big enough as it is.

I think they have a very valid point. If you look at the proposed sites for the defence(sic) shield or new NATO actual/proposed members it reads: Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, Georgia and a few of the ex-Russian XXXXstan countrys. So which country do they do they border?

The US had a once in a lifetime opportunity to get rid of this problem and deal with the new problem of emerging fundemental Islam. The right wing neocons followed an old Cold War policy, defence shield round Russia but really guys it is to prevent missiles from rogue nations like Iran, honest!!. Except Iran does not have any missiles with the necessary range. Their latest is a medium range that will only go as far as Israel.

So, naturally the Russians feel threatened, who would not. With the new oil and gas resources they have the economic muscle, as Europe needs the oil/gas, to voice their anger over this insane policy and be listened to. In the 90's they would have been ignored.
 
I wouldn't be so blazé about the whole event.

Russia won't think twice about re-entering it's former colonies (most of which are now part of the EU). Europe doesn't have any kind of fall back procedure lined up for that event so it would be pretty easy for russia to do. Infact pretty easy for them to sweep through europe.

what are the gains?

Well they did lose quite a lot of good fertile ground and industry when poland et al. decided on independance.

Ok it's a worse case scenario but what if they decided to rip though lithuania to relink their coastal town with russia? What would Europe do then they would have to take it back (by force if necessary.) Russians know that US and UK are at the moment already stretched.

Worrying times indeed. All we'd need is a hardliner to take the reins (already most russians would happily see some return to communism).
 
I wouldn't be so blazé about the whole event.

Russia won't think twice about re-entering it's former colonies (most of which are now part of the EU). Europe doesn't have any kind of fall back procedure lined up for that event so it would be pretty easy for russia to do. Infact pretty easy for them to sweep through europe.

I think Russia is not that stupid to do a Stalin and invade. What we have seen is problems left over from the break up. Remember Georgia was fighting seperatists within their own country before this recent spat and the peace deal let Russia into South Ossetia as peacekeepers to protect the sizable Russian minority. Georgia then attacked South Ossetia on the day the olympics started.

what are the gains?

Well they did lose quite a lot of good fertile ground and industry when poland et al. decided on independance.

Ok it's a worse case scenario but what if they decided to rip though lithuania to relink their coastal town with russia? What would Europe do then they would have to take it back (by force if necessary.) Russians know that US and UK are at the moment already stretched.

Worrying times indeed. All we'd need is a hardliner to take the reins (already most russians would happily see some return to communism).

I think Russia is not that stupid to do a Stalin and invade. What we have seen is problems left over from the break up. Remember Georgia was fighting seperatists within their own country before this recent spat and the peace deal let Russia into South Ossetia as peacekeepers to protect the sizable Russian minority. Georgia then attacked South Ossetia on the day the Olympics started.

I think there will be further trouble with other Russian provinces and ex-Russian countries. History has shown you always get trouble with the break up of a large empire.

Of course some people hanker back to the old Russia. They had jobs and pensions and Russia was something in the world but thanks to the West pushing for a quick change to a democratic system the criminals became rich and the vast majority got no jobs and pensions are not paid. What would you choose?
P.S. I thought Putin was already regarded as a hardliner.
 
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Worrying times indeed. All we'd need is a hardliner to take the reins (already most russians would happily see some return to communism).
That's very true my gf says that many Russians as a whole want things provided for them like the old days and the country to become more powerful again even at the expense of public freedom and a slightly tyrannical leader.
It's looking like all the efforts to introduce democracy since the 90s were pointless, you can lead a horse to water......
 
That's very true my gf says that many Russians as a whole want things provided for them like the old days and the country to become more powerful again even at the expense of public freedom and a slightly tyrannical leader.

What has the ordinary Russian gained since democracy? Nothing.
The criminals and party placemen emerged rich from stealing state assets.
People could not get jobs or pensions or electricity. Of course some people would want the certainty of food and money. So much, so obvious.

It's looking like all the efforts to introduce democracy since the 90s were pointless, you can lead a horse to water......

The Russians, Gorbachev was in power wanted to bring in market forces and democracy slower but let the party manage the change as is happening in China today. Unfortunately, the west's leaders, Thatcher, Schreoder and Regan(IIRC) wanted a 'big bang' change and as they would only give promised funding if the Russians complied. Big mistake. Democracy without basic necessities leads to anarchy and maybe a situation that is worse than that from which you started.
 
I'm sorry but I don't follow what you're trying to put across :) from what I understand you're saying it's a big mess :)
I've been to Russia a few times now, can speak (very) basic Russian and live with my Russian girlfriend so I guess I have a better idea than your usual "man off the street" and I agree with what you say.
 
Apologies for that single word reply. Some numpty got onto my m/c when I was called away and posted two messages. I posted the longer versions :)
 
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Well i think if there is a new cold war it's going to be economical,

The last cold war, as based on weapons etc, and lasted as long as it took both side to run millions of simulations until they both figured out, that neither side could possibly win (and of course the proxy battles while it goes on)


This time round they might be trying to see how they can mess with the other economy, and it will last till one side figures a way to "win" or they both figure out that neither of them can win (along with of course proxey battles every no and then)
 
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