DRM on PC games
- Thread starter House
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Where your argument falls down, because it always is. There's people out there already playing Spore.
Actually, my argument doesn't fall down at all. Dishonest people are the reason why publishers want to implement DRM. If people stopped being dishonest, DRM would no longer be necessary.
You appear to be saying that because dishonest people can break it, it's pointless. That's a moot point. If the dishonest people weren't being dishonest in the first place, it would never have been implemented.
Speaking of moot points, DRM being on games is a moot point in itself because it doesn't work. Ever.
But, hey, if publishers want to treat everyone like a criminal and impose a punishment that pirates don't have to deal with, that's fine. I'm going to enjoy Spore until my pre-ordered legit copy arrives.
Which is, of course, not true. DRM works very well to deter casual pirates and works to reduce piracy in that way. It doesn't stop the determined pirates, and those determined to be dishonest with software, but it does mean they can't claim it's accidental
In addition, repeating something that has already been adddressed, without actually addressing the comment isn't particularly a good debate approach...But, hey, if publishers want to treat everyone like a criminal and impose a punishment that pirates don't have to deal with, that's fine. I'm going to enjoy Spore until my pre-ordered legit copy arrives.
Well done, thanks for proving the point. While people are determined to be dishonest, have no patience or just want something for nothing, their behaviour makes things harder for the rest of us.
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Judging by the state of the Spore thread treating everyone like pirate is a fair starting point.
I cant beleive some people honestly think that games should to totaly unprotected. Would you leave your house unlocked?
What we need is a system that is the equivalant of a nicely secure house (alarms, locked doors and windows) but not over the top (minefield outside, guard towers and razorwire).
Like anything in life if its worth something and someone wants it enough they will steal it but if you can keep away the chancers and only have to worry about the real theives then your in the right area.
Probelm is with all media now is once someones stolen it anyone with a net connection can have it a a couple of hours. MAybe the probelm is best handled more by cutting off the distrubution.
I cant beleive some people honestly think that games should to totaly unprotected. Would you leave your house unlocked?
What we need is a system that is the equivalant of a nicely secure house (alarms, locked doors and windows) but not over the top (minefield outside, guard towers and razorwire).
Like anything in life if its worth something and someone wants it enough they will steal it but if you can keep away the chancers and only have to worry about the real theives then your in the right area.
Probelm is with all media now is once someones stolen it anyone with a net connection can have it a a couple of hours. MAybe the probelm is best handled more by cutting off the distrubution.
Soldato
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Perfect DRM is a CD Key with lots of online content which requires a valid CD Key. (More valid than the one used to install the game.
Put any DRM on some software and it WILL be cracked.
As said above
I have downloaded games before. I downloaded Battlefield 2 but that is a pile of poo offline as you can't play other people (unless you get lucky). I absolutley loved it and bought it the next day.
It's getting worse nowadays as games just aren't having demos released with them so people are forced to download before shelling out £25 on what could be a pile of ****!
Put any DRM on some software and it WILL be cracked.
As said above
I have downloaded games before. I downloaded Battlefield 2 but that is a pile of poo offline as you can't play other people (unless you get lucky). I absolutley loved it and bought it the next day.
It's getting worse nowadays as games just aren't having demos released with them so people are forced to download before shelling out £25 on what could be a pile of ****!
I like the principle of Steam however the costs of it and the regional discrimination is hard to take. I wanted to buy Beyond Good and Evil on the offer the other weekend. But I couldn't because it was a North American offer.
Best DRM is the online serial number for MP games. Other than that it's pointless protecting them to the extent they are as its worse for the buyer than the illegal downloader.
M.
Best DRM is the online serial number for MP games. Other than that it's pointless protecting them to the extent they are as its worse for the buyer than the illegal downloader.
M.
Standard CD-Key and nobody would complain.
Soldato
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What I don't understand is the games cracked by 'Reloaded' always have their cdkeys ending in #RLD.
How the hell can they do that? I can't see the manufacturer putting these serials into the system on behalf of a cracking team!
How the hell can they do that? I can't see the manufacturer putting these serials into the system on behalf of a cracking team!
Soldato
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If cracking it meant just using a legitimate cd key they wouldnt be very good crackers 
As was said, key with lots of online content with games either £14.99 £19.99 or £24.99 would eradicate a lot of piracy, it will never stop, as people will always want to get stuff free.
Spores a good example of a game that will benefit from buying it, theres additional good online content that makes it worth buying.
As was said, key with lots of online content with games either £14.99 £19.99 or £24.99 would eradicate a lot of piracy, it will never stop, as people will always want to get stuff free.
Spores a good example of a game that will benefit from buying it, theres additional good online content that makes it worth buying.
Think that depends, it's only user created creatures and what not.
A good example of a game you benefit from buying is basically any game that has a multiplayer element, CoD2 for example.
Soldato
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If cracking it meant just using a legitimate cd key they wouldnt be very good crackers
Ahh. Never actually thought what cracking entails
Hence why the first CD Key on install works but to get it online, it doesn't
Associate
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Paradox Interactive games (hearts of iron, europa universalis, etc.) have no DRM whatsoever. You don't even need the CD in to play, once you have installed. Their public view is that since it will be cracked anyway, there's no point spending a load of time/money on it. With their more recent games, if you want to access their specific forums for the game, you must register your CD-Key with your forum account. This is a great idea as it in no way stops you playing the game if you choose not to register, but the forums are very active and a great place to discuss tactics with others, so is a good draw for people to buy their games rather than pirate them.
I own a number of their games and I do feel they have probably the best relationship between developer and end users I have seen in PC gaming.
I own a number of their games and I do feel they have probably the best relationship between developer and end users I have seen in PC gaming.
Soldato
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Any game that has multiplayer element benefits from it, i know you only buy games that this is needed on, and i used to be the same.
I can actually see more more companies going free to play, with micro transactions for added content, its the only surefire way to ensure no piracy, while probably maximising profit.
Which is, of course, not true. DRM works very well to deter casual pirates and works to reduce piracy in that way. It doesn't stop the determined pirates, and those determined to be dishonest with software, but it does mean they can't claim it's accidental
Debating approach is irrelevant if you're just going to say my arguments are "moot points" when they're not, why should I even bother wasting my time? Might as well talk to a wall.
Yup, welcome to real life. People aren't all the paragons of honour and virtue like you are, they never have been and they never will be. This is why DRM is a futile exercise, and hey, publishers probably know it but they'll treat the legitimate buyers (this includes you) like criminals. If you're happy with this, then *shrugs*.
Sounds like one company at least has the right idea. Instead of treating legitimate buyers like criminals and spending tons of money on chocolate teapot protection (that is no doubt factored into the retail cost of the finished product), they focus on making and selling games instead.
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I've addressed your points twice now. You've done nothing to address the points I've raised apart from have a go. I don't think it's you who is wasting your time...
I'm not happy with it, I'm also not happy with the dishonest people for causing the issue in the first place. Perhaps less of a selfish attitude would make compromise much more likely...
I'm still all for personal responsibility. Moaning about DRM while talking about how easy it is to bypass and how you dishonestly obtain games is really quite hypocritical.
I moan about DRM because it's so easy to bypass, and every game you download gives you thorough instructions on how to use the cracks and whatnot. So this is not a case of only the technically minded pirates being able to do it, it's anybody who downloads the game. DRM is completely ineffectual.
DRM is expensive to license and is no doubt factored in to the final suggested retail price before it goes out to be sold. Not only are you, specifically, being treated like a criminal (I say you, because the criminals are unaffected) but you're probably paying a few quid extra for the privilege.
That's why DRM annoys the hell out of me, and that's why my conscience isn't going to bother me whilst I'm happily playing an illegitimate version of Spore until my retail copy arrives (dispatched today). This isn't a justification, before you jump on that, as I am not under the impressions that I'm doing nothing wrong.