2008 Italian GP - Race 14/18

TheStig1 · 14 Sep 2008 at 23:54

kimi could not get any heat in his tyres same as lewis in qualifying yesterday not much he can do when you don't have the grip its not like he suddenly decided to try in the last part of the race that was the only time he had any grip to push.

not the actions of a true racer? lol why did lewis not steam passed massa and co when he caught them? because he had worn his tyres out but surely a true racer wont care about that and can just ignore the lack of grip?

el_dazza · 14 Sep 2008 at 23:56

Skeeter said:
I too am confuzed? I thought Kimi was quite open about possibly wanting to retire. And what was the last 15 laps about, he clearly had the pace just did sod all about it for 3/4 of the race. Not the actions of a true racer if you ask me.

British media by any chance? ITV maybe?

Yeah, he's got the pace, but he just doesn't seem bothered. Poor show from a world champion. Might as well do what 95% of Britain does and potter about in a Micra.

Wasn't just ITV, BBC and Sky News were all focusing on Hamilton. I know he's British, but surely the winner of the race is more important than anything, unless it's a serious twist in the title race, like LH retiring and Massa winning, for example?

How often has Kimi put in a storming lap with 2/3/4 laps left, when he's stranded in 5th or somewhere equally as rubbish? It's like he's saying "I can do it, I just choose not to!"

Flibster · 15 Sep 2008 at 00:00

ps3ud0 said:
Great driver, just not a great human being - hes a cad ...

Worked for James Hunt and Graham Hill... or were they bounders?

Skeeter · 15 Sep 2008 at 00:01

el_dazza said:
Yeah, he's got the pace, but he just doesn't seem bothered. Poor show from a world champion. Might as well do what 95% of Britain does and potter about in a Micra.

Wasn't just ITV, BBC and Sky News were all focusing on Hamilton. I know he's British, but surely the winner of the race is more important than anything, unless it's a serious twist in the title race, like LH retiring and Massa winning, for example?

How often has Kimi put in a storming lap with 2/3/4 laps left, when he's stranded in 5th or somewhere equally as rubbish? It's like he's saying "I can do it, I just choose not to!"

Your assuming the British Media have the ability to look beyond their irrational blinkered opinions, much like certain forum members.

The main thing from this is a stonking weekend from Toro Rosso and Vettel. Everything else was just very good, good, poor, or very poor drives by other people.

Haiku · 15 Sep 2008 at 00:04

Nice drive by Vettel, made the wet conditions work for him.

sunama said:
Most of the best F1 drivers of the past have been arrogant. MS, Senna, Piquet, etc...even Kimi They are opinionated and believe they are correct, even if sometimes, they are obviously wrong.

True, but those guys all had/have World Championship titles to add substance to their bravado. Hamilton doesn't.

Housey · 15 Sep 2008 at 00:06

Well done Vettel, great drive from a future great. For the first time in a long time we are seeing the next generation come to the fore and it's interesting.

Skeeter · 15 Sep 2008 at 00:09

Haiku said:
Nice drive by Vettel, made the wet conditions work for him.

I would really like to see the title of 'Rain Master' handed to Vettel. He was brilliant in Japan last year too.

Unfortunately, as long as James Allen remains in his role, that title will only be reserved for Lewis Hamilton, the Senna-Esque Rain Master with an Air of Invincability....

*Christ, and to think im actually a fan of this guy, lol*

sunama · 15 Sep 2008 at 00:13

Haiku said:
True, but those guys all had/have World Championship titles to add substance to their bravado. Hamilton doesn't.

The WDC will come soon. He finished 1pt away from the title last year and is 1pt ahead this year. It wont be long.

The fact that he has become big-headed so early in his career is mainly down to the hype. A big reason was because he managed to face-off with Alonso, finished on equal points with him and managed to get him removed from McLaren. Not many drivers can do that.

Added to the fact that the media are constantly reminding him that he is already a star, means Hamilton has a big-head before he has won a single world championship.

He even has a older pop-star on his arm (who should be ashamed of herself, IMO)...

sunama · 15 Sep 2008 at 00:16

Skeeter said:
I would really like to see the title of 'Rain Master' handed to Vettel. He was brilliant in Japan last year too.

I do agree that Vettel is consistently good in the wet, but Hamilton is better. Even in Monaco, when Vettel was heading for a podium (until a Ferrari used him as a brake, shunting him out of the race, in the process), he was doing well. But, somebody else was doing better - namely Hamilton.

We have seen Vettel win the race from the front. We need to see him battle through the field - something that we have seen Hamilton do in the past.

Skeeter · 15 Sep 2008 at 00:19

sunama said:
I do agree that Vettel is consistently good in the wet, but Hamilton is better. Even in Monaco, when Vettel was heading for a podium (until a Ferrari used him as a brake, shunting him out of the race, in the process), he was doing well. But, somebody else was doing better - namely Hamilton.

We have seen Vettel win the race from the front. We need to see him battle through the field - something that we have seen Hamilton do in the past.

The difference is Vettel has done it in a slower car, without the massive knowledge and technical team of a larger constructor.

He was almost the best in a team that is almost the worst. Whereas Hamilton was the best in a team that arguably is also the best.

el_dazza · 15 Sep 2008 at 00:25

sunama said:
I do agree that Vettel is consistently good in the wet, but Hamilton is better. Even in Monaco, when Vettel was heading for a podium (until a Ferrari used him as a brake, shunting him out of the race, in the process), he was doing well. But, somebody else was doing better - namely Hamilton.

We have seen Vettel win the race from the front. We need to see him battle through the field - something that we have seen Hamilton do in the past.

Wasn't that Sutil, not Vettel?

shrek2 · 15 Sep 2008 at 01:32

Anders0n said:
Can I repeat my question from the last race thread, why do people hate Hamilton so much?

Some of the stuff he comes out with. Hes a pigheaded tw@t. To think in the Australian grand prix last year I liked him

cheets64 · 15 Sep 2008 at 03:04

shrek2 said:
Some of the stuff he comes out with. Hes a pigheaded tw@t. To think in the Australian grand prix last year I liked him

But he is a good driver, no difference to the greatest F1 drive to date, you don't become the a top driver for being a nice look at Couldtard and Button.

Domo · 15 Sep 2008 at 03:57

sunama said:
...because he managed to face-off with Alonso, finished on equal points with him and managed to get him removed from McLaren. Not many drivers can do that.

And not without major backing from the team prinicipal.
Did you see DC talking about his days at McLaren? DC said he knew what Alonso's been through, confirming what we already know about Dennis + LH. Ron's relationship with Hakkinen was seemingly as stomach churning as his current relationship with LH.

Alonso wasn't paranoid - and it wasn't LH who got Alonso 'removed' from McLaren. He was a champ sidelined to make way for a rookie driver. How would any driver feel about that?

JUMPURS · 15 Sep 2008 at 06:34

cheets64 said:
But he is a good driver, no difference to the greatest F1 drive to date, you don't become the a top driver for being a nice look at Couldtard and Button.

Alonso?

I didn't hear Alonso coming out every other weekend and saying his own drive was 'Sennaesque' :rolleyes:

JRS · 15 Sep 2008 at 07:23

Domo said:
and it wasn't LH who got Alonso 'removed' from McLaren.

No, but I doubt getting the stewards to ruin Alonso's Hungarian GP did much for the team harmony....in fact, it was pretty much the catalyst for it all kicking off. Not that it wouldn't have happened anyway, but it was certainly Hamilton who lit the touchpaper when it did blow up.

And over something as petty as a bit of gamesmanship in the pits....*sigh*

TheStig1 · 15 Sep 2008 at 08:06

sunama said:
I do agree that Vettel is consistently good in the wet, but Hamilton is better. Even in Monaco, when Vettel was heading for a podium (until a Ferrari used him as a brake, shunting him out of the race, in the process), he was doing well. But, somebody else was doing better - namely Hamilton.

We have seen Vettel win the race from the front. We need to see him battle through the field - something that we have seen Hamilton do in the past.

think it was sutil im sure vettel finished 5th coming from 15th which for a torro rosso is near enough comimg from the back and winning where do you think vettel has been battling all season? he has shown he can race

JUMPURS · 15 Sep 2008 at 08:21

TheStig1 said:
think it was sutil im sure vettel finished 5th coming from 15th which for a torro rosso is near enough comimg from the back and winning where do you think vettel has been battling all season? he has shown he can race

In a car that nobody expects to do much.

Domo · 15 Sep 2008 at 08:30

JRS said:
No, but I doubt getting the stewards to ruin Alonso's Hungarian GP did much for the team harmony

Remind me, what happened at the Hungarian GP? I'm guessing its the incident where FA held up LH in the pits during qualifying?

JRS · 15 Sep 2008 at 08:37

Domo said:
Remind me, what happened at the Hungarian GP? I'm guessing its the incident where FA held up LH in the pits during qualifying?

Hamilton ignored team orders and went out for Q3 ahead of Alonso on the road. This upset McLaren's strategy a bit. Alonso parked his car in the pit box for some extra time (about 10 seconds) before heading out for his final flying lap. Hamilton was delayed enough that he couldn't get another lap in.

Ron got angry enough to throw his headphones around, and had it out with Alonso on the morning of the race. Alonso then threatened to lift the lid on just how little Ron knew about what his team had been doing with the Ferrari data they'd obtained. Meanwhile, the stewards knock Alonso back five places on the grid for the heinous crime of not allowing Hamilton to get pole position....thus allowing Hamilton to get pole position.

Hamilton wins the race, Spygate completely blows up, and another McLaren driver partnership descends into acrimony.