Bi-amping?

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Is bi-amping where you use one power-amp to power just the bass drivers of two speakers, and then a separate power-amp to power the treble?

Or is it where one power-amp powers just one speaker, and the other power-amp powers the other speaker?

What are the sonic benefits of bi-amping?
 
Is bi-amping where you use one power-amp to power just the bass drivers of two speakers, and then a separate power-amp to power the treble?

Or is it where one power-amp powers just one speaker, and the other power-amp powers the other speaker?

What are the sonic benefits of bi-amping?

Bi amping is as you say in your first sentance. One amp deals with the bass and the other amp deals with the mid/treble.

The sonic benefits are that you bypass the crossover of the speaker which may be just a cheaply made filter and drive them separately.
 
Bi-amping is generally the former. I have one amp which acts as the pre-amp and the power amp for the tweeter and mid, and another which is the power amp for the bass.

Monoblocs will generally be used to do the latter.

The difference is much more controlled sound. Take a track like "Teardrop - Massive Attack" - this can really show a crap amp up because the deep bass can swamp the amps ability to preproduce the voices (mid) and treble. If you use a dedicated power amp for the bass the other amp isn't struggling and can concentrate on the mids/treble.
 
Yes, this is particularly effective when combined with active crossovers. Doing this takes the passive crossover out of the equation all together, instead using a more accurate, more efficient and generally better sounding small active circuit at line level to seperate the high and low signals. Bi-amping with the passive crossover still in use reapes some benefits but not nearly as many unfortunately.
 
The sonic benefits are that you bypass the crossover of the speaker which may be just a cheaply made filter and drive them separately.

Unfortunately, not quite. You need a crossover, whether it's in the speaker, or upstream of the power amps. Simply bi-amping a standard pair of speakers will NOT by-pass the crossover. To do the job with what you're suggesting, you'd need something like a Linn tunebox or Naim SNAXOS prior to the power amps.

As for the effects of bi-amping. In short, it'll give you more "grunt", kind of like doubling the torque of a car. That will improve bass control and reduce distortion. Having said that, it won't be an improvement to the basic circuits, as all you're doing is duplicating them.
The implications are that for the cost of bi-amping, you might well be better off with a single amp that cost twice the amount and has a better layout and higher quality components.
In the real world, it's dependent upon the system with which it's being used. I've seen reports both ways about the cost effectiveness of bi-amping.
If I were to look at bi-amping, I think I'd go the whole hog and go active, but in that case I'd probably look at something like the ATC range of active speakers. They not only have separate amps, but also have their amps "tuned" to work with the drivers.
Let me put it like this, I heard a pair of active ATCs recently, and IMO they were some of the best speakers I've ever heard, although they still don't have the attack that a good pair of horns give.
 
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Biamping I think is a benefit when you are upgrading as you go- adding a second amplifier can sometimes be cheaper than selling up and buying afresh.

There are some seriously cheap Rotel power amplifiers on auction sites that sound quite nice in a bi-amped configuration, say £60 - £70 for each 2 channel amp at about 70W?
 
Active crossovers will run you a few hundred pounds though.

And you might have to mod your speakers to remove the passive crossover circuit from them...

Active crossovers seem to be more prevalent in car setups than home setups. :o
 
Yep Bi-amping is as you described- I bi-amped by AudioLab 8000S with an 8000P a while ago. The result is much richer and fuller bass, better control and a 'tightening' of the sound all 'round, as the S is free to drive the midrange and tweeter, leaving the P to drive the bass.
 
Bi-amping can be worthwhile, but always with two identical power amps is best. Best option is active, which done properly rocks !!! and you never want to go back to passive again .... Sadly few follow this route, both ATC and Linn I guess have been the most obvious advocates of the active route.
The Linn way is easy, active cards fit inside their power amps, and the passive crossovers in the speakers are easy to disconnect.
 
Bi-amping can be worthwhile, but always with two identical power amps is best.

Why do you say that?

Some amps sound better at low end, others better at high end.... thus you use what sounds best for the low frequencies for your woofers, and then the amp that sounds best for the high frequencies...
 
Because the two amps have to work together, and the sound to be a seamless join. If the two amps have a different character you will end up with some weired effects.
In musical terms, Ie what sounds more tuneful and flows along better, never come together so well as matched ones. This holds true even when using amps from the same manufacture, mixed them further across brands and this could be a lottery to guess the result will be.

That said I am currently using mixed power amps in my Active set up, while adding the better amp improved the bass and control and dynamics of the system, it's not quite flowing so well as before.... But it's a stop gap situation, until I can afford the 2nd better amp to match !!!
 
Because the two amps have to work together, and the sound to be a seamless join. If the two amps have a different character you will end up with some weired effects.

Well in an ideal world - you'd have a single speaker that was flat through the frequency range from 20hz to 20khz - this isn't going to happen... So we have several speakers covering their own part of the frequency range (sub, woofer, mid, tweeter). We're just choosing the best parts for the job and it's the same with the amps... you can use you ears to find a combination that sounds best to you.

There's really no reason why you have to choose identical amps to power your sub woofers and your tweeters.
 
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Subs rarely have the same amp, and have far less impact, so is an extreme example IMO.
I'm simply speaking from experience, when I have mixed various Linn amps. Of course anyone could try and find a "magic" combination that works....the permutations must be endless and could take awhile ;)
 
Do you think live PA setups use the same amps across the board for every frequency...?

Of course anyone could try and find a "magic" combination that works....the permutations must be endless and could take awhile

Well yeah, there are - but then setting up active crossovers isn't always a walk in the park either....
 
I think the subject of comparing PA systems is a whole new subject !! lol..... In my mind they can't be compared, as they are designed for different requirements.

Designing an active crossover from scratch would be a challenge, but implementing a manufactures ready made set up is fairly straight forward.

With my own set-up, I got very lucky, as I found the active cards designed for Linn Keilidh or Ninka speakers work extremely well with the Dynaudio drive units fitted in my Speakers..... But then they were a DIY Speaker kit (Gemini) I built and modified over the years.
As both designs were a "Mid Tweeter Mid" design and similar crossover point the risks were not to high.
The result being I can't find a speaker that overall performs as well at any price so far.
 
Mixing power amps with speakers is an interesting area. I'm aware that for example ATC use different power amps for different drivers in some of the their speakers.
Given enough time to voice them to work well and there's a lot of potential by eliminating the need for a crossover to be able to deal with hi-powered signals.

The key problem you face is as 9 says, mis-matching on the voicing. It's one of the areas that I find really annoying on speakers, and one of the reasons that I dislike most ported designs, as they tend to have worse bass timing. A few years ago I heard a £10k pair of speakers that simply couldn't time to save their lives. HUGE, detailed sound, completely destroyed by poor timing.

The use of matching power amps simply reduces some of the variables that you're trying to deal with whilst getting your system to work in a synergistic manner.
 
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