Are electric cars viable? Could they be?

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The best we have at the moment is the Tesla (Lotus) Roadster (Electric Elise).

It's full of carbon fibre and Li-ion batteries, i.e. very expensive things. They're not just out of the prototype stage either, so it's not like Tesla are paying a huge premium for brand new technology. So it's inherently expensive. Admittedly, Tesla have jacked the price up a lot because they know it's a rich person's novelty toy and/or political statement, but it's genuinely expensive to make.

Despite the lavish use of lightweight materials, it's still heavy. Despite being designed and built by Lotus, it still doesn't handle brilliantly.

The few test drives show a lower than stated range, unsurprisingly. It's ~230 miles if you drive it carefully and efficiently. 150-175 is more likely with normal daily use.

It takes 4 hours to recharge even with a specially installed commercial supply. 8-12 hours (the claims vary) on a standard UK domestic supply.

You must have a garage with mains electricty (obviously, you can't plug it in outdoors).

The range reduces every time you recharge the car and reduces over time even if you do nothing.

The running costs are far more than stated because you have to take into account battery replacement costs, which are extremely high. Tesla carefully avoid answering the question of price, which is always a bad sign, but you're looking at 5 figures for it. In pounds, not dollars. In the USA, with much cheaper petrol, it's uncertain whether or not it's actually cheaper to run than an Elise.

Nearly all of the problems are caused by the same thing - batteries.

People talk about electric cars as if they were a new thing, therefore rapid progress is inevitable. They aren't, it isn't. An electric car is essentially a car (not new) with an electric motor (not new) and something to store electricity, almost always a battery (not new). Even the package put together into an electric car isn't new - there were electric cars 100 years ago.

Even with nano-titanate-based lithium batteries and their much lower charge time (about 10 minutes), there's still the problem of delivering the power to the car from the mains and the problem of generating and transmitting it. Large-scale use of electric cars will greatly increase electricity use. That 10 minute charge time will have to be at at 250KW or more, a lot more if a bigger range (and therefore a higher-capacity battery pack) is used.

I'm not convinced they're viable now. Maybe with new battery technology, a lot of resources put into increasing the capacity and resilience of the national grid and a lot of resources put into increasing generating capacity, they will become viable.
 
Depends what you mean by viable?

They are viable, just not as a direct replacement to the ICE due to the ease and energy density of the petrol and derv.

There are several US commuter cars, most look awful but work functionally. Honda had the EV plus in 1999 which did 100 miles on charge, that was more of a research product for the Insight Hybrid with is rather impressive 83 MPG.

Hybrids will still form a good portion of green vehicles whilst batteries still mature and develop.

http://www.aptera.com/details.php 230MPG @ 55mpg. Not back, even if it looks like a aeroplane.
 
There are several US commuter cars, most look awful but work functionally. Honda had the EV plus in 1999 which did 100 miles on charge, that was more of a research product for the Insight Hybrid with is rather impressive 83 MPG.
.

i thought the EV was GM?
 
Yeah GM did one aswell, the EV1. Both lease vehicles that were called back when they expired and the GM cars were crushed, dunno about the Hondas

Honda had the NiMH and four seats.

http://hondaev.org/acar.html

Then the oil companies started there meddling...
 
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I don't think they are viable now but once battery and motor technology improves to a certain point they will almost certainly be a viable alternative. Charging them overnight from the idle output from nuclear powerstations, overnight running of a hydroelectric plant or the wind stations makes sense when that power would otherwise be wasted.
 
The are missing sound, cars need sound.

Driving a car with out sound is like trying to have sex with out a penis(And no you're not a woman!:p)
 
Might need 10 million or so soon to act as batteries for the national grid when we start running out of power.

Lets be honest charging EV's is a far more appetising than getting hydrogen around the country. Nano-titanate is a interesting one for the lightning car, chargingthe battery actually causes them to cool down. Handy from a thermal point of view as i see that very useful for a hybrid where cooling invertors, motors and batterys is a nightmare for load space, also should allow more regen as you can draw large amounts of current in the speed retardation part of a drive cycle without using the mechanical brakes.
 
Not as good as internal combustion but with oil becoming scarce it the tech looks more promising to me than the vague notion of a Hydrogen Economy.

The Tesla is an amazing feat. The fact that it is only say double the price of a ICE sportscar of similar performance with cutting-edge technology is a very good sign. If they can mass produce cars like this and the Chevy Volt then it looks promising.
 
Dont forget how yoy charge them.

Before you get eletric cars you need clean electricity or its just pointless
 
I while ago a read briefly that if for example; If a third of Californians went electric with cars it would shut down the power grid, something along those lines and I don't even have any numerical figures for you. :(
 
[TW]Fox;12603348 said:
No matter how much you wish were you Jeremy Clarkson its quite clear you are not :p That was terrible :p

I dont want to be him:)(i would love his job of driving cars though:D)

But my quote still stands, I watched the video of the Electric Cobra the other week and it was missing its soul/penis:(
 
Electric cars are fine, batteries are not.

Hydrogen is a much better idea for storing energy from idle generation than slinging it across the country and hoping everyone has their car plugged in (if they can plug it in).

As most people in this country have no garage or drive they'll never be able to plug it in overnight, so we're looking at very fast charging (if it's ever practical) from refuelling stations, which can't store the energy so will make massive demand, during the day, and need seriously industrial energy supplies.

I just can't see the battery ever working, hydrogen however is possible to make, efficiency is no worse than losses on the grid and you can be certain you can use all un-used generation any time of the night or day.

The only problem I can see is safe storage which is imo more likely to be solved than the logistical problem of delivering massive current to fuel stations all over the country at peak times.

Hell - they could even just accept that it's dangerous and might blow up if you crash :)
 
Hell - they could even just accept that it's dangerous and might blow up if you crash :)

You mean like other fuels we already have?:p LPG seems to go up really well when it does:p

BMW have a video on there site showing there hydrogen fuel tank being crumpled.
Id happliy drive it and not be worryed about blowing up
 
Dont forget the Lightning GT too

Electric cars could be the way forward if fuel cell technology doesnt take off. I mean people who suggested that horseless carriages were the way forward were branded as being mad.

You just never now how technology is going to develop. Could you have imagined technology like Sky + in the 60s ?
 
the tech is getting there but as Telescopi says most people don't have a garage, or even off street parking... let alone the extra drain on the grid (which lets not forget is mainly powered by non-renewable sources....)

If i could work something out with my employer i could in theory run and charge a tesla at work... but the cost to buy is so high savings on fuel wouldn't pay for the difference from an elise for a good while!
 
I while ago a read briefly that if for example; If a third of Californians went electric with cars it would shut down the power grid, something along those lines and I don't even have any numerical figures for you. :(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1123665.stm

They have a lot of power issues over there! Electric cars aren't going to help the situation!

And as for charging how about this:

You don't need a garage as such to plug it into, but on the street like parking meters where you can park up anywhere and charge your car like that? You could just plug it into your car and swipe your credit card and you're away.

Or perhaps rather than having to plug it in, in the road like earthing straps, after your car is parked, wires or some remote arm could rise up from the road and plug into your car from the underside, sort of like trains but in reverse.
 
And as for charging how about this:

You don't need a garage as such to plug it into, but on the street like parking meters where you can park up anywhere and charge your car like that? You could just plug it into your car and swipe your credit card and you're away.

the problem with something like that is adoption. You'd need so many points installed nationwide before people would start using them, and it just wouldn't be practical (or profitable) to do untill a huge number of people had the compatible plug in cars... Its not like LPG where you can make a detour to fill up, you'd want it somewhere your happy to hang around for a couple of hours
 
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